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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old February 5 2013, 09:45 PM   #151
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Why not? If people can't handle realistic criticism every time they post that they want to see a "post-24th-century Trek with Borg, Romulans, etc.", then they shouldn't bother posting.
Yes, they should not post and not the Buzz Killingtons whose sole contribution references markets, budgets, cinema climate, ticket sales and audience figures...

I agree that would be a much more entertaining to read.
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Old February 5 2013, 09:46 PM   #152
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

Nagisa Furukawa wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
Well, I'd say Deep Space 9 did everything better than Star Trek 2009, what with it being the best Star Trek series. And I'd be far from alone .
Holla!
Nagisa Furukawa wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
In the other we have... Nero.

I'd say your five least favorite things are:

5. Lawrence Miles
4. Yourself
3. RTD
2. Generations
1. Nero
Nagisa Furukawa wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
Nagisa Furukawa wrote: View Post
I'd say your five least favorite things are:

5. Lawrence Miles
4. Yourself
3. RTD
2. Generations
1. Nero
Lawrence Miles wrote at least 3 good Doctor Who books so I wouldn't lump him in there. Replace him with George Takei. I fucking hate George Takei.
Oh my!

DS9 is a quality series. Going through it for the first time and it's a show that definitely holds up. Although it may not be The Wire or Breaking Bad in terms of having an arc and an ongoing story, or even Babylon 5, but it does have a couple of them, and some good ones at that, and allow me to sit through it on a marathon in a way I could never do with Voyager, where it's just standalone after standalone.
Nagisa Furukawa wrote: View Post
anh165 wrote: View Post
Basically you have no rational reasoning behind defending bland battle scenes over what works in today's audience, other than your mid 1990's TV sentimental bias.
LMAO, I'm watching DS9 for the first time in 2013, started on New Year's Day. No bias to it, dude.
Nagisa Furukawa wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
Nagisa Furukawa wrote: View Post
LMAO, I'm watching DS9 for the first time in 2013, started on New Year's Day. No bias to it, dude.
You give me hope for humanity.
I'm so sorry about how low your standards have gotten.
None of this is on topic - most of it amounts to little more than you tagging around after DalekJim, cheerleading. If there had been more substance to your posts, you might have been warned for trolling instead, but as it is...

Warning for spamming; comments to PM.
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Old February 5 2013, 09:46 PM   #153
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Squiggy wrote: View Post
You're complaining because it's the same way it's always been...it's just that cinematography has changed since the 80s and gfx have gotten better.
Am I? OK then, thanks for telling me .
You're welcome. Glad I could enlighten you and nuTrek isn't that much different than old Trek. It's just shinier.
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Old February 5 2013, 09:57 PM   #154
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

Re-opening after I've got caught up on my reading.

Let's have one more try at getting back to discussing a topic which isn't other posters and/or their supposed shortcomings.
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Old February 5 2013, 10:00 PM   #155
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

I loved the Kelvin battle, I want more like that. We've had over 40 years of traditional space battles on Trek, its time to retire it.
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Old February 5 2013, 10:03 PM   #156
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

Shazam! wrote: View Post
Yes, they should not post and not the Buzz Killingtons whose sole contribution references markets, budgets, cinema climate, ticket sales and audience figures...

I agree that would be a much more entertaining to read.
Why can't we all post? Why can't we all offer our observations and facts in a thread? I'm pretty sure we're all big boys and girls here.

One of the reasons some folks have a hard time here is because they come in with an air of superiority and this notion that you can't like Star Trek 2009 and the other series and movies.

As far as traditional space battles go: I liked the battles in Star Trek, TNG, DS9, Voyager the Prime universe movies and the 2009 movie.
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Old February 5 2013, 10:12 PM   #157
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

Awesome Possum wrote: View Post
I loved the Kelvin battle, I want more like that. We've had over 40 years of traditional space battles on Trek, its time to retire it.
This goes to the "Mom's macaroni and cheese" aspect of fandom - most any fandom. There's always a strong demand for the familiar simply because it is familiar...and fans can tell you all the reasons that "familiar" is in fact "better quality."

After all, if some folks didn't like something just the way it is they wouldn't be fans of it.

The problem is that movies, stories and so forth can't actually continue to succeed and be creative while primarily feeding the demands of the fan base for more of the same. There's a point at which the owners and creators of the things have to take the risk of alienating the fans, if those owners and creators intend to go on with the franchise.
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Old February 5 2013, 10:15 PM   #158
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

The ST09 battles are part of a larger trend towards a kind of stylized realism (I know it sounds contradictory, but it is Hollywood). People complained about the fight scenes in Batman Begins, the Bourne movies and in a bunch of other films. It goes back as far as Saving Pvt. Ryan, where people complained they had trouble following the action during the landing at Normandy (unfavourably comparing it to The Longest Day).

The fact that such fights and battle scenes are difficult to follow is precisely the point. Real life conflict is chaotic and disorienting. It wasn't until the past two decades or so that filmmaking technology could convey that sense of chaos. Fights and battles were highly staged because that's what technology allowed for. And like all changes in aesthetic standards, there will always be resistance from some and admiration from others. Staged battles and fights were once a requirement. Now they are a stylistic choice. I expect they will return (some filmmakers never abandoned them) in greater numbers but the more frenetic style is here to stay.
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Old February 5 2013, 10:16 PM   #159
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

BillJ wrote: View Post
As far as traditional space battles go: I liked the battles in Star Trek, TNG, DS9, Voyager the Prime universe movies and the 2009 movie.
Here is a great compilation of a whole bunch of them:

Trek Space Battles
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Old February 5 2013, 10:19 PM   #160
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

Ovation wrote: View Post
The ST09 battles are part of a larger trend towards a kind of stylized realism (I know it sounds contradictory, but it is Hollywood). People complained about the fight scenes in Batman Begins, the Bourne movies and in a bunch of other films. It goes back as far as Saving Pvt. Ryan, where people complained they had trouble following the action during the landing at Normandy (unfavourably comparing it to The Longest Day).

The fact that such fights and battle scenes are difficult to follow is precisely the point. Real life conflict is chaotic and disorienting. It wasn't until the past two decades or so that filmmaking technology could convey that sense of chaos. Fights and battles were highly staged because that's what technology allowed for. And like all changes in aesthetic standards, there will always be resistance from some and admiration from others. Staged battles and fights were once a requirement. Now they are a stylistic choice. I expect they will return (some filmmakers never abandoned them) in greater numbers but the more frenetic style is here to stay.
Exactly so.
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Old February 5 2013, 10:20 PM   #161
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

BillJ wrote: View Post
Why can't we all post? Why can't we all offer our observations and facts in a thread? I'm pretty sure we're all big boys and girls here.
I know. And I agree. I think however, the 'business' angle is irrefutable; we know what works and doesn't work. We know a TMP movie isn't going to happen any time soon. We know big-bangs-for-your-buck is successful and at times, damn entertaining and we know that JJ's Trek is working and is here to stay, albeit most likely for only another movie or so.

I just see a lot of otherwise entertaining conversation and idea threads - however wild and unrealistic they may be - derailed by what are essentially office meetings with charts and graphs and facts and figures.

I don't actually mean for anyone to stop posting or anything. It's just a thing that bugs me.
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Old February 5 2013, 10:24 PM   #162
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

As for battles, I'm partial to TWOK myself. I know the nebula played a part in how that battle played out but I like the idea of Trek ships as warships or even pirate ships. DS9 had some cool scenes and battles but even they had Galaxy class ships zooming around like X-Wings every now and then.

The opening scene in Trek 09 was powerful and visceral and served as a demonstration of how [Nick Fury]hilariously[/Nick Fury] outgunned the Federation ships are. It set up the end of the movie fairly well but at the same time it almost blew it's load too early. The Narada had no surprises up its sleeve during the climax as we'd [Patrick Stewart]seen everything[/Patrick Stewart], including red matter and the jellyfish.
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Old February 5 2013, 10:27 PM   #163
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

DalekJim wrote: View Post
The Stig wrote: View Post
I guess it all depends on whether or not you want an action sequence to be immersive and immediate or objective and detached. Do you want to be caught up in the terror facing a small survey ship faced with impossible odds or do you want to be impressed by the tactical maneuvers of the attacking ship? I much prefer something that draws me in to the situation and makes me feel like I'm there, in the moment.
I don't have to be spoonfed and can be engaged with something shown from an objective point of view.
You keep using 'spoonfed.' I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Why is a kinetic action sequence that draws the viewer into the situation 'spoonfeeding?' Was Spielberg spoon-feeding the viewers of 'Saving Private Ryan?' Were the Bourne movies? Or the cinema-verite reboot of BSG ten years ago. (I can't believe it was 10 years ago, but that's another story.) Even something as classic as Midway used gun camera footage and archival materials to give the movie a feeling of authenticity and immediacy.

But hey, I'm not the one with the PhD. So what do I know?

Edit: sniped by Ovation on the Saving Private Ryan reference. Blast!
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Old February 5 2013, 11:01 PM   #164
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

The new films have battles that actually seem to be like battles. They're incredibly fast, a little terrifying to imagine yourself there, almost insane and you don't fully know what is really going on.

It isn't like a video game where they just have to get where they can shot the bad guy. TWOK and few other battles are mainly saved by the editing and acting. TWOK in particular, it wasn't a battle, it was a Chess game between Kirk and Khan.
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Old February 5 2013, 11:07 PM   #165
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

You know, when I made my previous post about how I wished ST might, just might, for one movie, just for a change of pace, get back to more like a TVH-style of film, I did it in full awareness of what the trends are in Hollywood these days (incidentally, I did go see Lincoln, and I thought it was great). And I'm not saying I completely dislike that style of moviemaking. It's not that I didn't like the ST09 space battles, they were quite spectacular. It's just that the post got me thinking about all the death and destruction in that movie, and I guess I just got a bit nostalgic for a time when Star Trek on film was about more than explosions and death. Sorry.
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