RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 137,882
Posts: 5,329,480
Members: 24,557
Currently online: 615
Newest member: Mgroup Video

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Inquisition
By: Michelle on Jul 12

Cubify Star Trek 3DMe Mini Figurines
By: T'Bonz on Jul 11

Latest Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Jul 10

Seven of Nine Bobble Head
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

Pegg The Prankster
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

More Trek Stars Join Unbelievable!!!!!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

Star Trek #35 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

New ThinkGeek Trek Apparel
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Star Trek Movie Prop Auction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Drexler: NX Engineering Room Construction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 24 2013, 05:52 AM   #46
CorporalCaptain
Vice Admiral
 
CorporalCaptain's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: Favorite Mirror Universe Episode?

REDrake wrote: View Post
Mirror, Mirror comes as a close second, but my issue with it is how quickly Kirk formulates the theory of being in a parallel universe. Those lines kind of felt like artificially put there to make the watcher understand exactly what is happening.
What other theories should Kirk have considered, that fit the facts as they knew them at that point?
__________________
John
CorporalCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24 2013, 04:05 PM   #47
solariabsg25
Captain
 
solariabsg25's Avatar
 
Location: Bristol, UK
View solariabsg25's Twitter Profile
Re: Favorite Mirror Universe Episode?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
REDrake wrote: View Post
Mirror, Mirror comes as a close second, but my issue with it is how quickly Kirk formulates the theory of being in a parallel universe. Those lines kind of felt like artificially put there to make the watcher understand exactly what is happening.
What other theories should Kirk have considered, that fit the facts as they knew them at that point?
I second this, really there wasn't any other option Kirk could have considered, apart from maybe Spock went nuts and changed everything around while he was on the planet!

I loved the DS9 Mirror Universe episodes, but as a fun distraction rather than a "true" mirror universe story, I could even postulate that they may be in a "different" mirror universe to that shown in Mirror, Mirror and In A Mirror Darkly.

I regard the latter two as fantastic episodes. I always thought it would have been fun for TOS to re-visit the universe, discovering that Kor was almost like Kirk, with the Klingons and Romulans being very Federation-like.
__________________
"A perfect organism, unclouded by remorse, or human illusions of morality." - Ash, Alien
solariabsg25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24 2013, 06:52 PM   #48
Belz...
Fleet Captain
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Location: In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
Re: Favorite Mirror Universe Episode?

A difficult question. TOS' episode was great, so was ENT's. I like the first DS9 one, also. I guess my favourite is the one with Worf, "Shattered Mirror". The other ones are also good.
__________________
And that's my opinion.

The Onmyouza Theatre: an unofficial international fanclub dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za.
Belz... is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24 2013, 07:10 PM   #49
Sector 7
Rear Admiral
 
Sector 7's Avatar
 
Location: McCrory/Hitler's Republic of North Carolina
Send a message via AIM to Sector 7
Re: Favorite Mirror Universe Episode?

Until reading this thread, I did not know there were so many Mirror episodes, especially in DS9 [I'm not really a Niner]. How many Mirror episodes did DS9 do?
__________________
“When all Americans are treated as equal, no matter who they are or whom they love, we are all more free.” -Pres. Obama
"A great democracy does not make it harder to vote than to buy an assault weapon." -Pres. Clinton
Sector 7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24 2013, 08:49 PM   #50
Belz...
Fleet Captain
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Location: In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
Re: Favorite Mirror Universe Episode?

Five in DS9.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_...Trek)#Episodes
__________________
And that's my opinion.

The Onmyouza Theatre: an unofficial international fanclub dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za.
Belz... is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24 2013, 09:35 PM   #51
REDrake
Lieutenant
 
REDrake's Avatar
 
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Send a message via Yahoo to REDrake
Re: Favorite Mirror Universe Episode?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
REDrake wrote: View Post
Mirror, Mirror comes as a close second, but my issue with it is how quickly Kirk formulates the theory of being in a parallel universe. Those lines kind of felt like artificially put there to make the watcher understand exactly what is happening.
What other theories should Kirk have considered, that fit the facts as they knew them at that point?
That they are inside some mind trick or under the influence of some malevolent alien? It happened many times before that episode.
They always ran into things that drove the crew mad, delusional or simply degenerate.

The fact that Kirk somehow just guessed the right answer for that situation seemed kind of far-fetched to me.
REDrake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24 2013, 09:41 PM   #52
Belz...
Fleet Captain
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Location: In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
Re: Favorite Mirror Universe Episode?

Kirk's just that good.
__________________
And that's my opinion.

The Onmyouza Theatre: an unofficial international fanclub dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za.
Belz... is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24 2013, 10:18 PM   #53
CorporalCaptain
Vice Admiral
 
CorporalCaptain's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: Favorite Mirror Universe Episode?

REDrake wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
REDrake wrote: View Post
Mirror, Mirror comes as a close second, but my issue with it is how quickly Kirk formulates the theory of being in a parallel universe. Those lines kind of felt like artificially put there to make the watcher understand exactly what is happening.
What other theories should Kirk have considered, that fit the facts as they knew them at that point?
That they are inside some mind trick or under the influence of some malevolent alien? It happened many times before that episode.
They always ran into things that drove the crew mad, delusional or simply degenerate.

The fact that Kirk somehow just guessed the right answer for that situation seemed kind of far-fetched to me.
Well, if we're going to analyze the scene, let's at least have the transcript:

Mirror, Mirror wrote:
MCCOY: What is this? Everything's all messed up and changed around, out of place.
UHURA: Captain, what's happened?
MCCOY: No, not everything. That spot, I spilt acid there a year ago. Jim, What in blazes is this?
KIRK: I don't know. It's our Enterprise but it isn't. Maybe
UHURA: Maybe what, Captain?
KIRK: Any of you feel dizzy when we were in the transporter beam?
UHURA: Yes.
SCOTT: Aye.
KIRK: When we first materialised.
SCOTT: I did.
KIRK: It happened twice. First we were in our own transporter chamber, then we faded, and then when we finally materialised, we were here. Wherever this is.
SCOTT: Captain, the transporter chief mentioned a surge of power. The transporter lock might have been affected by the ion storm and we just materialised somewhere else.
KIRK: Yes, here. Not our universe, not our ship. Something parallel. A parallel universe co-existing with ours on another dimensional plane. Everything's duplicated, almost. Another Enterprise. Spock with a beard.
UHURA: Another Captain Kirk, another Doctor McCoy, another
MCCOY: An exchange. If we're here
KIRK: Then our counterparts must have been transporting up at the exact same time. Similar storms on both universes disrupted the circuits. We're here, and they're on our Enterprise. Probably asking the same questions. Are we in another universe, and if so, how do we get back to our own? They'll use the computer, and we have to.
MCCOY: What about the Halkans? We can't let them be destroyed.
I've highlighted what I think are the key pieces of information that Kirk bases his supposition on. Everything being the same, but different, and then the same down to certain details that can't easily be known (how many besides McCoy knew about the acid spot?), the behavior of the transporter beam, and the surge of power because of the storm all suggest that they've accidentally beamed somewhere else, because of the storm. That somewhere else can't really be in their own universe, either. QED.

Yeah, I agree: Kirk's just that good. He can argue a machine into blowing itself up. He has a genius-level intellect, and he doesn't shrink from the logical conclusion.

It's also worth noting that the theory is confirmed later in the episode, first by the ship's computer as a plausible theory, and then later by Scotty as what's actually happening, when he sets up the transporter to beam them back, as Scotty is able to determine that they don't have much time left to return.

Even if it had been a mind trick, so what? How could they have been any worse off, by following the best escape plan they had before them?
__________________
John
CorporalCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2013, 08:52 PM   #54
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Favorite Mirror Universe Episode?

Of course "Mirror, Mirror" was excellent because of the "what if..." story idea it examined, but for me ENT's "In A Mirror, Darkly" excelled in exploiting the story idea (and these are the only ENT episodes I ever watched full length, I'm really not a prequel fan with the exception of B5's "In the Beginning").

With TOS Gene Roddenberry wanted to have "Hornblower" in it, Nicholas Meyer delivered it with ST II and VI but exaggerated, IMHO while IAMD did a great job of conveying a maritime feel, although admittedly it was more "Pirates of the Caribbean" than "Horatio Hornblower".

Everything in IAMD reminded me of pirates doing their business but of course within a futuristic context. If that was the essential idea I can only congratulate the ENT producers on an excellent job.

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 03:19 PM   #55
Mario de Monti
Captain
 
Mario de Monti's Avatar
 
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Re: Favorite Mirror Universe Episode?

In a Mirror, Darkly definitely.

What clearly sets it apart from the other MU episodes is the fact, that it is totally a mirror episode, from teaser to end credits (you´ve got to admire how they even changed the opening credits along with the music to match the rest of the episode(s)). This way we get to see "our heroes" as they are in the other universe, without the posing as bad guys and tiptoeing around of the "real" characters as in Mirror, Mirror (which I still like a lot, nonetheless).
It´s a straight forward fun story to watch, without any constraints, completely detached from ENTs "real" universe. And though some apparently consider bringing the Defiant back this way as "fanwank", I was really thrilled the first time a saw it ... did NOT see that coming

IAMD may also be an interesting entry for someone wo hasn´t seen any ENT episodes before, since it stands so separate from the rest of the show and also has the ties back to TOS.

Mario
__________________
"Do you give me attitude, Spock?" - "I´m expressing multiple attitudes simultaneously, Sir. To which are you referring?"
Mario de Monti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2013, 09:47 PM   #56
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Favorite Mirror Universe Episode?

I love this one thing Linda Park said about her appearances in IAMD. She said she was trying to "put the Ho in Hoshi".
__________________
In labor news: Longshoremen walked off the piers today. Rescue operations are continuing.
Mr. Laser Beam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3 2013, 11:18 AM   #57
maneth
Captain
 
maneth's Avatar
 
Location: maneth
Re: Favorite Mirror Universe Episode?

In a Mirror, Darkly followed by Mirror, Mirror.
__________________
Live long and prosper
IDIC
maneth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 3 2013, 01:29 PM   #58
Use of Time
Commodore
 
Use of Time's Avatar
 
Location: Va. Beach, VA
Re: Favorite Mirror Universe Episode?

Mirror, Mirror was great. Poor Chekov.
__________________
Searching for something, a million miles and a ways to go.
Use of Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 4 2013, 11:21 PM   #59
FKnight
Commander
 
FKnight's Avatar
 
Re: Favorite Mirror Universe Episode?

REDrake wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
What other theories should Kirk have considered, that fit the facts as they knew them at that point?
That they are inside some mind trick or under the influence of some malevolent alien? It happened many times before that episode.
They always ran into things that drove the crew mad, delusional or simply degenerate.

The fact that Kirk somehow just guessed the right answer for that situation seemed kind of far-fetched to me.
Even if we count the Talos IV incident (which didn't involve this crew), and maybe Trelane, I believe, at this point in the series that "always ran into things" of the calibre to look like a parallel universe is probably overstating it.

Indeed, at this point, Kirk had practical experience with alternate universe hopping to know it might make you dizzy, so he asked the crew.
__________________
"You have been examined. Your ship must be destroyed. We make assumption you have a deity, or deities, or some such beliefs which comfort you. We therefore grant you ten Earth time periods known as minutes to make preparations."
FKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
mirror mirror, mirror universe

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:07 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.