Episode of the Week: 2x01 The Child - Page 4

Melakon · January 31 2013, 07:32 AM

Lance wrote:

Melakon wrote:

Well the only way they could have done that was to fire Wheaton along with McFadden, and they didn't seem ready to do that. So Wesley stayed on board.

You're trying to put a moral choice on a production decision. Maybe you'd prefer that Beverly was in stasis in a bottom drawer in Sickbay somewhere during Season 2.

A lesser series might simply have recast the Dr. Crusher part. McFadden should count herself lucky that they decided to write the character out, instead of simply replacing the actress and having The Child open with a scene where Wesley walks into sickbay and says "Hi Mom!" to a new Dr. Crusher.

Or, they could have opened with Stunt Actor Beverly with some alien facehugger thing on her face, she's taken to sickbay where Non-Dialogue Doctor Extras work on her, and at the half-hour break they get the bandages off and she looks like... uh... Morgan Fairchild! Yeah! That's the ticket!

Captrek · January 31 2013, 07:51 AM

"Beverly's Brain": Aliens steal Dr. Crusher's brain to run their civilization. The Enterprise crew sets off to retrieve it. Not having the doctor around to work magic, her body dies before they retrieve the brain. Fortunately they find a TrekBBSer with an empty cranium and transplant the brain into her.

The following season she has a cosmetic procedure to make her new body resemble her original body.

Melakon · January 31 2013, 08:33 AM

Or the billing could have been "Special Guest Star Diana Muldaur as Beverly Crusher" after a transporter accident that takes the entire season to resolve.

Jeyl · January 31 2013, 02:22 PM

heavy lids wrote:

It's an episode of Star Trek.

Yeah, and it's a bad episode of Star Trek that comes off as quite offensive. I'm not that dismissive in poor taste as you are.

BillJ · January 31 2013, 03:12 PM

Jeyl wrote:

heavy lids wrote:

It's an episode of Star Trek.

Yeah, and it's a bad episode of Star Trek that comes off as quite offensive. I'm not that dismissive in poor taste as you are.

It's entertainment, quality is subjective.

Jeyl · January 31 2013, 03:24 PM

BillJ wrote:

It's entertainment, quality is subjective.

And what is that supposed to mean? Entertainment is also subjective Bill. Do you regard every single piece of media that's labeled as entertainment as entertaining? I sure don't. Just because it's subjective doesn't mean one person's subjective view is irrelevant. We're all talking about what our subjective thoughts and opinions are of this episode, so what are you talking about?

BillJ · January 31 2013, 04:09 PM

Jeyl wrote:

BillJ wrote:

It's entertainment, quality is subjective.

And what is that supposed to mean? Entertainment is also subjective Bill. Do you regard every single piece of media that's labeled as entertainment as entertaining? I sure don't. Just because it's subjective doesn't mean one person's subjective view is irrelevant. We're all talking about what our subjective thoughts and opinions are of this episode, so what are you talking about?

Jeyl wrote:

Yeah, and it's a bad episode of Star Trek that comes off as quite offensive. I'm not that dismissive in poor taste as you are.

Stating that its offensive is an opinion. Stating that your somehow better than someone who likes it isn't. It's designed to be an insult to the taste of posters who like it.

Jeyl · January 31 2013, 04:47 PM

BillJ wrote:

Stating that its offensive is an opinion. Stating that your somehow better than someone who likes it isn't. It's designed to be an insult to the taste of posters who like it.

How does stating that I'm not as dismissive at poor taste supposed to mean I'm better than he is? Some people like poor taste. Some writers incorporate poor taste into their story in either comedic or dramatic ways. If that's heavy lids thing, that's not a problem. I just find the idea of a Troi being raped, impregnated and nobody (including Troi) giving much thought about it in the end to be the kind of poor taste I don't find entertaining. If heavy finds it entertaining, fine. I won't think him the lesser for it.

inflatabledalek · February 15 2013, 11:54 PM

I'm weeks behind on this... Eeeek.

As a kid (whenever this was first on BBC2... 1991/2?) I just thought this episode was very dull. Which pretty much set the tone for how I viewed most of the rest of the season.

As an adult, oh yes, there's all sorts of unfortunate implications. But unlike Code of Honor it at least feels unintentional (the reality of the making of each episode is immaterial from that POV, it's just how the finished product winds up feeling to this viewer) and more a case of things not being thought through properly.

It also represents of of my minor bugs when it comes to SF and fantasy... instantly got rid of babies. In fiction generally, pregnancies (or at least births) are seen as full of potential for drama and/or comedy.

But once the baby is born... well you can get a bit of comedy out of it but generally babies are useless for drama. They're just mewing screaming shitting bundles rather than characters. Many TV shows will often fudge the age of their kids so they get to be old enough they have at least the vestige of a personality much sooner (which basically happened with Alexander and Molly on the Trek shows) but SF also gives the magnificent cop out of allowing a rapid, instant pregnancy due to ALIENS/SCIENCE/MAGIC and then ageing or otherwise magincally getting rid of the kid (without killing them, baby death really isn't something most viewers, including myself, are that keen on).

So you get the drama of a birth... without having to deal with any of the real consequences beyond one episode (or if you're really luck, an arc). I just find it generally lazy and annoying, and here is no exception. We're even told within the episode Troi won't even show the basic signs of having had a baby to hammer home how few the long term consequences are.

I would also like to offer some defence for our new Doctor. I actually like her overly confrontational attitude towards Data, she's got a really obvious character arc set in motion where she starts off hating this machine (as several non-Enterprise crew-members we meet over the years do) before coming to respect and like him. It's the sort of thing we should have seen at least one of the regulars having to struggle with in season one (we get a little bit of it with Riker- the only person we see meet Data for the first time in Encounter- but that quickly gets forgotten after their first scene).

Considering it's so obvious how their relationship is going to go even at this stage, it amazes me how many people hated her right from the off when she's obviously someone who is going to learn a lesson.

Indeed, I don't think there's any sign of aninomisty between them after Elementary Dear Data, only the third episode of the season. I'll talk when I reach that thread about how the ball was dropped on resolving that character arc, but from the way some people talk Pulaski did nothing but continually mock and belittle Data for the entire season. Which is far from the case.

Maurice · February 18 2013, 07:49 AM

heavy lids wrote:

Someone has A LOT of free time...

That's a tacky and pathetically obvious attempt to dismiss someone's opinion and everyone sees through it for what it is.

Jeyl · February 18 2013, 12:24 PM

inflatabledalek wrote:

Considering it's so obvious how their relationship is going to go even at this stage, it amazes me how many people hated her right from the off when she's obviously someone who is going to learn a lesson.

While I certainly understand the Data/Pulaski relationship needed to start on the rough side, there were several moments about Pulaski that just screamed unprofessionalism. How do you justify not greeting the captain of the ship you're about to serve under, let alone interrupt him when he's trying to meet you in person for the first time?

And Pulaski's role in Troi's pregnancy was also not handled well. Doctor/Patient confidentiality is a very serious issue, and when Troi comes to Pulaski regarding this unknown pregnancy, they don't go to sick bay, they go to the bar..... where there are other crew members around. This was NOT the place to shoot the scene. If anything, it should have either been in Sickbay or in Troi's quarters. At least if it was in Troi's quarters, Picard could have figured out for himself that Pulaski was helping Troi with something serious and not deliberately avoiding the Captain. There could have been a nice moment for Picard to appreciate Pulaski's commitment to her job by putting duty first first and saving formalities for later.

FreddyE · February 20 2013, 02:34 PM

R. Star wrote:

Even during Best of Both Worlds no one even mentioned the possibility of evacuating the families and civilians before they confronted them.

Not true. They actually DO consider seperating the ship.

Caligula · February 20 2013, 02:57 PM

May as well have called this episode "The Odd Life of Ian Troi." You know, aside from the whole icky alien rape part. Like Timothy Green, Ian is a child of remarkable intelligence and growth who seems to have sprouted up out of the ground (in the movie, literally), who fill their parent(s) with a sense of joy they'd never felt before, but who only has a short time to stay (in Ian's case, because he realizes he's a danger to everyone on the Enterprise). Both stories work to play with our emotions to compensate for lame plotlines, and both do a rather sloppy job of it.

cheesepuff316 · February 25 2013, 07:29 PM

Patrick wouldn't have allowed them to kill her off - he already has enough guilt without feeling responsible for her death too!

January 31 2013, 07:51 AM	#47
Captrek Rear Admiral Location: Second star to the right and 'round back to last night	Re: Episode of the Week: 2x01 The Child "Beverly's Brain": Aliens steal Dr. Crusher's brain to run their civilization. The Enterprise crew sets off to retrieve it. Not having the doctor around to work magic, her body dies before they retrieve the brain. Fortunately they find a TrekBBSer with an empty cranium and transplant the brain into her. The following season she has a cosmetic procedure to make her new body resemble her original body. __________________ Khan, I'm laughing at the superior dental occlusion.

January 31 2013, 08:33 AM	#48
Melakon Commodore Location: Unmarked grave, Ekos	Re: Episode of the Week: 2x01 The Child Or the billing could have been "Special Guest Star Diana Muldaur as Beverly Crusher" after a transporter accident that takes the entire season to resolve. __________________ "Every time you think, you weaken the nation." --Moe Howard

February 15 2013, 11:54 PM	#54
inflatabledalek Captain	Re: Episode of the Week: 2x01 The Child I'm weeks behind on this... Eeeek. As a kid (whenever this was first on BBC2... 1991/2?) I just thought this episode was very dull. Which pretty much set the tone for how I viewed most of the rest of the season. As an adult, oh yes, there's all sorts of unfortunate implications. But unlike Code of Honor it at least feels unintentional (the reality of the making of each episode is immaterial from that POV, it's just how the finished product winds up feeling to this viewer) and more a case of things not being thought through properly. It also represents of of my minor bugs when it comes to SF and fantasy... instantly got rid of babies. In fiction generally, pregnancies (or at least births) are seen as full of potential for drama and/or comedy. But once the baby is born... well you can get a bit of comedy out of it but generally babies are useless for drama. They're just mewing screaming shitting bundles rather than characters. Many TV shows will often fudge the age of their kids so they get to be old enough they have at least the vestige of a personality much sooner (which basically happened with Alexander and Molly on the Trek shows) but SF also gives the magnificent cop out of allowing a rapid, instant pregnancy due to ALIENS/SCIENCE/MAGIC and then ageing or otherwise magincally getting rid of the kid (without killing them, baby death really isn't something most viewers, including myself, are that keen on). So you get the drama of a birth... without having to deal with any of the real consequences beyond one episode (or if you're really luck, an arc). I just find it generally lazy and annoying, and here is no exception. We're even told within the episode Troi won't even show the basic signs of having had a baby to hammer home how few the long term consequences are. I would also like to offer some defence for our new Doctor. I actually like her overly confrontational attitude towards Data, she's got a really obvious character arc set in motion where she starts off hating this machine (as several non-Enterprise crew-members we meet over the years do) before coming to respect and like him. It's the sort of thing we should have seen at least one of the regulars having to struggle with in season one (we get a little bit of it with Riker- the only person we see meet Data for the first time in Encounter- but that quickly gets forgotten after their first scene). Considering it's so obvious how their relationship is going to go even at this stage, it amazes me how many people hated her right from the off when she's obviously someone who is going to learn a lesson. Indeed, I don't think there's any sign of aninomisty between them after Elementary Dear Data, only the third episode of the season. I'll talk when I reach that thread about how the ball was dropped on resolving that character arc, but from the way some people talk Pulaski did nothing but continually mock and belittle Data for the entire season. Which is far from the case. __________________ TRANSFORMATION: ADVANCED SIGN READING Bumblebee Vs. The Wall of Sound in my look at Rock and Roll Out! Part 2

February 20 2013, 02:57 PM	#58
Caligula Vice Admiral Location: Knoxville, TN USA	Re: Episode of the Week: 2x01 The Child May as well have called this episode "The Odd Life of Ian Troi." You know, aside from the whole icky alien rape part. Like Timothy Green, Ian is a child of remarkable intelligence and growth who seems to have sprouted up out of the ground (in the movie, literally), who fill their parent(s) with a sense of joy they'd never felt before, but who only has a short time to stay (in Ian's case, because he realizes he's a danger to everyone on the Enterprise). Both stories work to play with our emotions to compensate for lame plotlines, and both do a rather sloppy job of it.

February 25 2013, 07:29 PM	#59
cheesepuff316 Ensign	Re: Episode of the Week: 2x01 The Child Patrick wouldn't have allowed them to kill her off - he already has enough guilt without feeling responsible for her death too!

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