Question for the Parents on TrekBBS

[lurok]

I've seen several of my liberal friends who forswore chastisement now deliver a very gentle smack to their errant toddlers. Usually back of hand or leg. Roads and good intentions, I guess. Still surprising to see though. Considered a no-no.

[thestrangequark]

Generally I don't think spanking is necessary or valid. There is plenty of research showing that people who were spanked as children are less successful in school, socially, and in the working world as adults than those who were not spanked. It's only a correlation, but it's something to think about.

Generally violence begets violence.

However, I've used generally very consciously, as I think there are circumstances when spanking, while still maybe not the best choice, is justifiable -- or at the very least, understandable. And I don't think parents who occasionally spank their kids are bad parents or should necessarily be chastised. I don't think as a regular recourse it is particularly effective, but, as Miss Chicken pointed out, sometimes children do things that are dangerous and are too young to be reasoned with. My mom hit me when I ran out in the road at age 2. She hit me twice growing up, and when your mother hits you only twice in your whole childhood, those instances stand out.

[Deranged Nasat]

thestrangequark wrote:

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Generally violence begets violence.

However, I've used generally very consciously, as I think there are circumstances when spanking, while still maybe not the best choice, is justifiable -- or at the very least, understandable. And I don't think parents who occasionally spank their kids are bad parents or should necessarily be chastised. I don't think as a regular recourse it is particularly effective, but, as Miss Chicken pointed out, sometimes children do things that are dangerous and are too young to be reasoned with. My mom hit me when I ran out in the road at age 2. She hit me twice growing up, and when your mother hits you only twice in your whole childhood, those instances stand out.

I think this generally sums it up. I'm opposed to smacking or spanking, and won't be using it on my own children, but there's a big difference between an occasional smack intended to emphasise dangerous or truly unacceptable behaviour in the very young and an actual policy of correcting behaviour through violence. They're not really comparable. Which is why, though I'm against physical punishment and would strongly urge others not to use it at all, I don't think smacking should be illegal, and I wouldn't say a parent who smacks occasionally is abusive. I disagree with their perspective, but that's rather irrelevant. And as you say, parents who smack in exceptional circumstances have understandable reasons for doing so.

[Robert Maxwell]

I occasionally spanked my kids when they were younger, always as an immediate corrective action when they were about to do or had done something dangerous. As others have described, it's basically a light swat to get their attention, rather than a painful punishment. Now that they're a bit older, there is no good reason to put my hands on them. They can communicate just fine and they can understand when I want them to do (or not do) something. I can also punish them by taking away privileges. There's just no need to hit them.

My parents used spanking as punishment after the fact, which I never found very effective for anything. I just got better at not getting caught. It didn't "fix" any behavior.

[bluedana]

I have three children. I spanked them as the nuclear option when it was important to get across the idea that they could never, ever do whatever it was they did again. Generally the threat of a spanking (I did the silent countdown on my fingers until they self-corrected) was enough. The younger ones learned impulse control fairly early. The oldest one practiced bad behavior IDIC (Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations) so his spanking encounters were more frequent. Correcting that kid's behavior was like playing Whac-a-mole.

My mother spanked me (she had a belt dedicated to that purpose). It worked for me.

[Tom Hendricks]

I have three kids under 4 years old, so I'm in the thick of behavioral correction all the time. While I have had no reason to spank my kids yet, I don't think it's something I would take off the table. We use a lot of Time Outs, Taking Away of Prized Items and Count Downs. Children are very frustrating, they know how to pick at every last nerve. While I would never use Violence to correct violent behavior, I think it only reenforces the violent behavior. I can see where a spanking to correct seriously dangerous behavior to themselves or others could be used.

[Kirby]

I have a 10 year old and a 4 year old. We spanked my son (the 10 year old) a couple of times because of some repeated bad behavior that didn't go away when we tried other methods. I don't think the spanking worked, nor do I think it worked for me as a kid, except to create a fear of pink hairbrushes (my parent's spanking device of choice). We've never spanked my daughter; Just the threat of taking away story time before bed is enough to get her to behave.

[marillion]

Two schools of thought at play in my house...

When I was a child and I said a bad word or lipped off, my mom would generally smack my mouth.. Not hard, mind you, just enough to let me know I was going down the wrong path with my language... Once in a great while, if I was bad, I'd get a spank on the butt.. Not multiple that I recall, just one and it was never hard enough to leave a mark..

The one day I was finally big enough to block my mom's hand as it went to slap my face was NOT a fun day for me, as my blocking of her swing only made her even madder!! That taught 'em not to pay for martial arts lessons! LOL!!

My wife, on the other hand, grew up in a house with a belt.. If she or her sibs misbehaved, they got a whack across the butt with a belt...

Fast forward to today... When our kids were small, I would, if the occassion called for it, administer a swat on the rear, mostly as an attention getter and only if the cause were serious... Spanking an already crying child is NOT a way to get them to stop....

My wife, on the other hand, has never, to my knowledge, done any spanking... The kids are both teens now, so there are no more spankings..

[mari]

My parents only ever needed to threaten us and we got into line. You can't discount the power of a well-practiced glower. I use that skill (apparently inherited) on my nephew and the students where I work - ages 2 through 22, it works.

OTOH, between the three of us girls, there was all sorts of physical violence. Usually for no reason more than "she looked at me funny" or "she was breathing my air".

[Kenbushway]

Deckerd wrote:

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BTW full marks Kenb for an excellent thread topic.

Thank you.

thestrangequark wrote:

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Generally I don't think spanking is necessary or valid. There is plenty of research showing that people who were spanked as children are less successful in school, socially, and in the working world as adults than those who were not spanked. It's only a correlation, but it's something to think about.

Generally violence begets violence.

However, I've used generally very consciously, as I think there are circumstances when spanking, while still maybe not the best choice, is justifiable -- or at the very least, understandable. And I don't think parents who occasionally spank their kids are bad parents or should necessarily be chastised. I don't think as a regular recourse it is particularly effective, but, as Miss Chicken pointed out, sometimes children do things that are dangerous and are too young to be reasoned with. My mom hit me when I ran out in the road at age 2. She hit me twice growing up, and when your mother hits you only twice in your whole childhood, those instances stand out.

I agree with you, spanking as the only form of punishment doesn't work. My father made me write essays (not fun), groundings, etc. When I was grounded that meant just laying on the bed staring at the ceiling. Its actually where I got my huge imagination, because I couldn't fall asleep. I should have included a third poll option, as someone said here a nuclear option.

[milo bloom]

In 5.5 years we have not found sufficient cause to use spankings, we cannot think of anything bad enough that the proper answer would be to hit him.

He has pushed our buttons, and I have found myself more forceful than I should have in moving him along or putting him into his room, and I've always ended up feeling bad even about that.


Apropos of nothing, my wife told me just a few years ago that she still flinches when I take my belt off when getting undressed, not from anything I've done of course, but from her punishments as a child. A thirty-mumble year old woman still flinching? Anybody want to say that doesn't cause long-lasting harm?

[Kenbushway]

milo bloom wrote:

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In 5.5 years we have not found sufficient cause to use spankings, we cannot think of anything bad enough that the proper answer would be to hit him.

He has pushed our buttons, and I have found myself more forceful than I should have in moving him along or putting him into his room, and I've always ended up feeling bad even about that.


Apropos of nothing, my wife told me just a few years ago that she still flinches when I take my belt off when getting undressed, not from anything I've done of course, but from her punishments as a child. A thirty-mumble year old woman still flinching? Anybody want to say that doesn't cause long-lasting harm?

Do you know if her spanking was excessive? Because I used to live a very fearful life but even I didn't flinch each time my father raised a hand or touched a belt. Yes harsh amounts of spanking as in it was the only punishment, can cause lasting harm no doubt. But as you can see on here people are using spanking as a last resort, I don't think that would cause long lasting effects.

[milo bloom]

Kenbushway wrote:

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Do you know if her spanking was excessive? Because I used to live a very fearful life but even I didn't flinch each time my father raised a hand or touched a belt. Yes harsh amounts of spanking as in it was the only punishment, can cause lasting harm no doubt. But as you can see on here people are using spanking as a last resort, I don't think that would cause long lasting effects.

Even used as "last resort", it still feels like you're admitting that there's no other option and I just can't accept that. Even if it's repeat behavior, that uses time-outs or other things at first, then all of a sudden it's hitting, all that teaches a child is that you're not consistent. They don't learn not to do that behavior because they finally learn that it's wrong, they only learn not to do from fear of punishment (my wife and I also have no use for religion, I'm sure you can draw the parallels).

Too many parents see "misbehavior" as willful and that it needs to be quashed. Even if the child does seem to be actively engaging in a behavior that's not to your liking, that's what children do. Yes, they need to be shown the boundaries, that's what the parents are for. But not with hitting.

[iguana_tonante]

Miss Chicken wrote:

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I only spanked my children when they did something dangerous and they were too young to reason with.

This is my position as well. As the father of a two-month-old, I wonder if can keep it. I hope so.

[Kenbushway]

iguana_tonante wrote:

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This is my position as well. As the father of a two-month-old, I wonder if can keep it. I hope so.

When my father first spanked me on the hand it was because I was about to touch an electrical outlet, I was likely no more than 1-2 years old.