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Old March 24 2014, 07:35 PM   #1
Warped9
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TOS in the 29th century...

On another forum some discussions have been going on about how TOS could be rebooted for television. And, no, it's not about perpetuating the Abramsverse.

The idea is to cut the umbilical cord in terms of continuity from any previous one. My idea would be to have many familiar things in place, but thoroughly updated for today. That means trying to recapture an element that TOS exuded: take some familiar ideas as well as speculative ones outside of science fiction and repackage them in a new way that seems unlike anything so before.

There would still be an Enterprise, a 5-year mission significantly involving deepspace exploration, a Starfleet and Federation, some familiar aliens and perhaps a few other things, but it would all be updated and some shifted around a bit.

To that end I've dug up a concept I had many years ago for a futuristic version of an Enterprise and decided to model it as the Enterprise NCC-1701 as if we were starting from scratch. Even then I wanted to evoke the original Matt Jefferies' design even as I pushed it forward to a 26th or 29th century setting. Suffice to say much of the prehistory could be familiar even as it's fleshed out or shifted.

A reboot can take two basic approaches.

When TNG premiered we had something of an arms length reboot, at least in the beginning. Essentially the idea was to supposedly be set within the same continuity as what came before, but avoiding a lot of overt references to what came before. Any references to the past were usually tangental and vague. Note in TNG's "The Naked Now" the crew of the E-D discover that the TOS Enterprise crew dealt with a similar situation. But they refer to the previous event and who is associated with it as if it could have been just anybody. There's no, "OMG, the great Kirk dealt with this, too?" kind of thing. It was just another ship in another time. Of course, this would change as the series progressed (in fits-and-starts) and throughout the other spin-off series. It happens again in DS9 during their first Mirror Universe encounter where Bashir has heard of Kirk but Kira hasn't.

This actually would be one way to approach a future series reboot set in a post TNG period or even one concurrent with TOS, TMP or TNG (and DS9 and VOY are essentially TNG era). If you're not doing the familiar characters then set your stories off somewhere else and keep the references few and vague.

The other option is to cut the umbilical cord. Keep some core familiar elements and fashion everything else from a clean sheet. This would work whether you want to reboot the original characters and setting or if you want to do something completely unrelated. From this point one could have the Enterprise, Kirk and company, and everything else could be completely different and the period set in the 23rd, 26th or 30th century. You could do it as if you were building Star Trek from scratch. And you wouldn't be burdened by anachronisms of the past.

I love TOS and the current Star Trek Continues project, but even in enjoying those you have to shrug off some things that you simply wouldn't do today. This is one area where JJ missed the an opportunity because he wanted to keep a lot that was familiar and just move it around a bit.

I can easily envision rebooting TOS where you could recognize familiar elemnts and yet so much else would be different. The Enterprise could still be essentially a saucer with a support hull and nacelles, but the tech and hardware would be far in advance of anything seen in any Trek series or film or most anything else in SF in the visual medium. Communicators wouldn't be handheld or badges, but implants. Datapads would be even more multipupose than what current smartphones and tablets can do. A datapad could actually be merged with the tricorder. While I wouldn't copy the TMP uniforms to me they do indicate a general idea of looking more futuristic.

There are nuggets of ideas within all of Trek that were never really explored properly. Of course, there's also a lot outside of Trek that could be mined and adapted into a new Trek. TOS took a lot of already existing ideas and repackaged them into a new form that was daring and exciting for its time. Since TOS it has largely been mildly redressing those ideas. A new Star Trek could really push it forward. Depending how it's done I could see myself having my original Star Trek to cherish while still interested and excited about a new take on it. The beauty of this is it could draw existing fans as well as new ones and all the while not seem threatening to existing fans.

This is actually part of the issue some fans have with the current reboot. Instead of doing a complete clean restart they sought to tie it to what came before. Some fans are okay with that while others can feel it's disrespectful to the original materiel. In Abrams' version the original continuity has been wiped away and its not hard to see how that could piss off some people. But with a completely new restart that doesn't happen. It's like doing Star Trek set in a parallel universe not at all connected to the original even though some of it is familiar.

Think about this if you're willing to really let your imagination wander. Imagine, for a moment, what could have been done with ENT if it had been a complete reboot. You have a Kirk and Spock (and the rest) instead of Archer and T'Pol (and the rest) and the Enterprise (looking somewhat more advanced than what we can do today) being one of the very first to really head out there. It's the mid 22nd century and other than Vulcans no one familar at all has been encountered yet. You can completely rewrite everything. Or maybe the Enterprise is a fast reletavistic ship with a voyage that will last hundreds of years even as it will only be a few years to the crew (and the human lifespan can be 150 years). And again you can completely rewrite everything going forward. There really are a lot of possibilities.

A lot of fans can yearn for part of what came before to be revived, but in all honesty I don't think you can really do that anymore, at least not for anything beyond a web based fan production. If you want this to work for a primetime audience you have to push it forward. If you don't then you risk a lot of potential viewers possibly shrugging it off as same-old-same-old...again.


The setting is the 29th century. The Federation is recovering from a protracted war with the Romulan Empire ending forty years ago, a war that dragged for twenty-five years. The Federation had been a burgeoning alliance prior to the conflict encompassing many worlds and are now seeking to regroup its alliance. The war ended in a draw and both sides are intent on solidifying their status with current, former and new allies.

The Klingons - once leaders of a great empire who are rumoured to reside somewhere in the Sagittarius Arm.
The Andorians - allies of the Federation
The Gorn - allies of the Romulans


If I were tasked with rebooting Star Trek I think I'd play with the characters a bit.

Captain James Kirk - transferring from command of a smaller and more combat oriented vessel. He's replacing former ship's Captain, Christopher Pike, who commanded the Enterprise for its first six years.
Commander Nyota Uhura - she is the ship's Executive Officer and dubious of Pike's replacement. She is an experienced Contact Officer in dealing with alien races.
Lieutenant ILyik Spock - a young Vulcan/Romulan hybrid and ship's Science Officer.
Lieutenant Commander Lenora McCoy - recently assigned as ship's Chief Medical Officer.
Lieutenant Commander Montgomery Scott - a veteran spacer of many years and deeply involved in designing and building the Enterprise. He has been ship's Chief Engineer since launch and worked closely with Commodore Robert April who directed the new starship program.
Lieutenant S'ulu - a Medusan who must always wear a contact suit. He is the ship's exceptional HelmNav.
Lieutenant Olesya Chekov - ship's Chief of Security.

The Enterprise is among the vanguards, dispatched into the Sagittarius Arm to re-establish contact with former allies and resume exploration of unknown regions.


And so I proceed from here:



I'll start modelling this within the next few days. I think I'll make some tweaks---lengthening the secondary hull and the nacelles about ten percent---but I will retain the overall concept and add more detail.
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Old March 24 2014, 09:39 PM   #2
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

Interesting ideas.

One thought, though... I think your Enterprise doesn't look at all like what you've described. I think it looks too much like we're used to...

With all of the great concepts and updates to everything else, I think the ship could look way more out there. More aggressive, too, if they've been at war for so long.

Something along the lines of this, but even a little more of a departure?
http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/20...th-d6typgo.jpg

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Old March 24 2014, 10:05 PM   #3
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

^^ No, I'm looking for more balance of familiar and new. I want to evoke the MJ design with some elements of the refit and even the D.
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Old March 25 2014, 12:15 AM   #4
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

I like the sotness of the lines. I'm used to seeing nacelles higher, but the Belknap stance does make more sense. Maybe thicken the nacelles a bit?
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Old March 25 2014, 01:02 AM   #5
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

Some rocking ideas here, looking forward to see how this progresses, would really love to read a whole bunch of novels with this as the premise also your enterprise is brilliant so far.
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Old March 25 2014, 01:41 AM   #6
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
^^ No, I'm looking for more balance of familiar and new. I want to evoke the MJ design with some elements of the refit and even the D.
Yes, that's what the design looks like, like you merged the three designs together.

When you wrote:
The Enterprise could still be essentially a saucer with a support hull and nacelles, but the tech and hardware would be far in advance of anything seen in any Trek series or film or most anything else in SF in the visual medium
I figured you would go farther. The Enterprise was a pretty revolutionary design at the time, much different than rocket ships and things on other shows, right?

A re-imagining like this could have another revolutionary design, breaking continuity with all the Enterprises that we have already.

Just a thought.

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Old March 25 2014, 01:55 AM   #7
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

Interesting concept, both the ship and the slate of characters.

I had thought along vaguely similar lines, but mine was closer to the "clean sheet of paper" concept. Instead of re-inventing TOS, I wanted to re-invent ENT: the Starship Enterprise would be an advance prototype vessel, the building of which was supervised by Captain John Archer with his engineer sidekick Charlie "Tripp" Tucker. The Vulcans would be more reptilian, like the Cardassians, but with pointed ears and flaming green scales. The NX-01 Enterprise, an Earth ship for the new Coalition of Planets, would have some resemblance to MadMan's Constellation project. The Romulans and Klingons would be much more alien, like DS9's Cardassians and Jem'Hadar.
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Old March 25 2014, 02:29 AM   #8
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

I tried for a little more balance of male and female for the main group of characters. I also considered that if you don't need a Communications Officer than what to do with Uhura? So I went back to some of Trek's early ideas. In a way I basically took the crew of "The Cage" and updated it with the TOS crew.

I figure the average life span to be perhaps 120-140 years (yeah, being conservative) and so the crew on average could skew a bit older (even if some played by a younger cast). So Kirk could be around 50 chronologically yet look a good fifteen years younger. Scotty might remember something of the Fed/Rom war since he's the oldest one aboard.

I'm thinking that humans, Vulcans and Andorians are the primary races of the UFP although, of course, there are other races. And we should be able to see some representatives of other aliens amongst the Enterprise crew.

"All I ask is a tall ship" was an idea I had in the back of my mind. I wanted to get away from stretched out and flattened designs. The general aesthetic leans toward the smooth rather than greeble festooned. So the TMP refit is a decent baseline in terms of detail.

I figure Vulcans and Romulans wouldn't be much different from what we're familiar with. But Andorians, Gorn and anyone else could be quite different or more evolved in appearance.

I have no hard figures yet, but my design is approximately 1200-1500 feet L.O.A.
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Old March 25 2014, 02:33 AM   #9
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

WARNING: String of thoughts coming...

I had an idea that was based in the Cage Era, but with no Federation of Planets and no Enterprise (an alternate universe semi-reboot, but with no interactions with the Prime Universe). Basically humanity's first contact was with Klingons, not Vulcans. There were some conflicts at first, mainly uprisings and terrorists attacks, since humanity had no starships of their own (Cochrane's warp flight took place but warp travel remained a dream). The Klingons annexed Earth after a few decades abandoned it as they had no use for humanity. Humans that had been used as slaves and general entertainment had settled down where ever they were deposited, a few in still in service to the Klingons to survive. Robert April would be working on getting together a crew and a ship to go out and find a way to bring humanity hope. Their ship would be a 'real-world' version of the Constitution-class, but would not be named Enterprise (there would never be an Enterprise in this alternate universe). The Vulcans chose to remain neutral and not assist humanity. Ironically, because of conflict with the Klingons, the Romulans would eventually ally themselves with humanity. James Tiberius Kirk would serve as April's first officer, as Christopher Pike (similar to his portrayal in The Cage) was in charge of the junk yard where this universe's Constitution-class was built and did not want to be put in a situation where he was responsible for lives again. Kirk would actually be older than Pike but not as experienced. At the end the ship would be destroyed and April and Kirk killed protecting Earth. Pike would begin the founding of a new Alliance of Planets, with the Romulans and eventually the Vulcans signing on. A new Constitution II-class would be built that was closer in visual look of the Prime version (but still real world like), with Gary Mitchel as captain. The name of the ship would be left to speculation, but would not be Enterprise (as mentioned before, no Enterprises in this timeline).

Also an idea of a miniseries covering the final days of the Valiant (mentioned in Where No Man Has Gone Before) with a dark tone would be cool.
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Old March 25 2014, 04:41 AM   #10
Warped9
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

Of course I'm thinking mostly in terms of design. But if this were a series I could see it having events of edginess, but not being outright dark just for the sake of being part of the current trend.

I like the idea of a 10-13 episode season with the episodes being the high points spread out over about a year in universe. If you can keep the series running five years then it's perfect. Each season could be a mini arc even as the show is essentially episodic.

But you could deal with different ideas.
- Will the Klingons be found? Who will find them first? What will they be like? Who will they side with, if with anyone?
- Are the Gorn steadfast allies of the Romulans or is there dissent and uncertainty?
- Are the Andorians fully steadfast with the Federation?
- Does Spock have to deal with suspicion among some of his shipmates because of his mixed heritage?
- In the beginning there's tension between Kirk and Uhura. I'd take a page from the 1950's submarine film Run Silent, Run Deep to play out a similar tension between an aspiring commander (Burt Lancaster) and an established one (Clark Gable).

There could be other questions and background plot lines. In terms of tone there could be something of a Cold War atmosphere and something like a Babylon 5 type sensibility. That said, while the Federation is not a Utopia there is still a general sense of idealism to it.

In terms of history I would adapt some general ideas from what came before, but flesh them out.

- Humans used relativistic ships until the early 23rd century when Zefram Cochrane of the Alpha Centauri colony develops warp drive. At that point humanity has a sphere of influence of about 40 light year radius.
- Within the 23rd century humanity will encounter the Vulcans and Andorians and eventually (centuries later) they will found the United Federation of Planets.
- Over the next few centuries other races are encountered and the UFP grows along with occasional small conflicts along the way.
- Late in the 28th century Federation and allied ships start disappearing and a Starbase goes silent. Even as the Federation starts piecing things together the Romulans launch a large scale attack. The conflict will drag for twenty-five years before an uneasy cease-fire is agreed upon.

Of course this all general backstory.

There are some other characters it could be interesting to reimagine: Kor, Kang, MBenga, De Salle, Komack, Nogura, Thelin, Garth, Saavik, Stone, Tracy, Miranda Jones, Areel Shaw, Chapel, Rand, Riley, Angela Martine, Carolyn Palamas, Richard Daystrom, etc. You could also reinvent some things or characters from the TNG era.

I would hesitate to adapt or rewrite previous stories, but certain ideas might be adapted. The Prime Directive (if adapted) would have to be rethought.
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Old March 25 2014, 01:08 PM   #11
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
^^ No, I'm looking for more balance of familiar and new. I want to evoke the MJ design with some elements of the refit and even the D.
As some of the others have pointed out, after having read the eloquent description of this far-flung Star Trek future, I was expecting the hero ship artwork to be awe-inspiring. It really wasn't. I think that you're missing out on some of the same opportunities that you said JJ missed out on by being too beholden to what came before, and trying to be recognizable. Honestly, when I read your description of the ship, my mind immediately went to something akin to the Enterprise J.

My thoughts.
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Old March 25 2014, 01:57 PM   #12
Warped9
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

It's what I have at hand presently so that's what I'm working with. Doesn't preclude me massaging it as I go. There's also the issue of basic concept: saucer, secondary hull and nacelles. You can only do so much. There have been ideas straying from that, but I generally haven't cared for them. Candidly I've found very few Starfleet designs throughout Trek to have been really well integrated and visually balanced.

After the TOS and TMP designs there were few that really clicked for me. The E-D is okay, but the are visual balance issues to it (to my eye). I don't find the E-B, E-C or E-E designs nice at all. The Reliant is fine, but not as a hero ship. The Voyager and other deviations don't look Star Trek to me. The Defiant is the only one I thought really nicely done, but then it's not a hero ship design for the series concept.

Designs for Starfleet ships in Trek have also tended toward being stretched out and flattened in progression. I chose to evolve the idea differently.

The JJprise took the TOS concept and distorted it. It's a deliberate exercise in visual distortion with terrible proportions and visual imbalance.

To my eye a Star Trek hero ship needs to have a certain look. I'm well away of the aesthetic choices made by "official" Trek and many fans alike over the years, particularly since the films and TNG. I'm opting to go my route.

I could certainly come up with a design that's radically different, but then it wouldn't look Star Trek or Starfleet and so then I would be doing something completely original. The whole idea of my premise was to update TOS while still having a sense of familiarity.

And, no, JJ didn't really do that. He wasn't even as forward looking as TNG.
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Old March 25 2014, 02:38 PM   #13
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
It's what I have at hand presently so that's what I'm working with. Doesn't preclude me massaging it as I go. There's also the issue of basic concept: saucer, secondary hull and nacelles. You can only do so much. There have been ideas straying from that, but I generally haven't cared for them. Candidly I've found very few Starfleet designs throughout Trek to have been really well integrated and visually balanced.

After the TOS and TMP designs there were few that really clicked for me. The E-D is okay, but the are visual balance issues to it (to my eye). I don't find the E-B, E-C or E-E designs nice at all. The Reliant is fine, but not as a hero ship. The Voyager and other deviations don't look Star Trek to me. The Defiant is the only one I thought really nicely done, but then it's not a hero ship design for the series concept.

Designs for Starfleet ships in Trek have also tended toward being stretched out and flattened in progression. I chose to evolve the idea differently.

The JJprise took the TOS concept and distorted it. It's a deliberate exercise in visual distortion with terrible proportions and visual imbalance.

To my eye a Star Trek hero ship needs to have a certain look. I'm well away of the aesthetic choices made by "official" Trek and many fans alike over the years, particularly since the films and TNG. I'm opting to go my route.

I could certainly come up with a design that's radically different, but then it wouldn't look Star Trek or Starfleet and so then I would be doing something completely original. The whole idea of my premise was to update TOS while still having a sense of familiarity.

And, no, JJ didn't really do that. He wasn't even as forward looking as TNG.
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Old March 25 2014, 03:19 PM   #14
Warped9
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

Irishman wrote: View Post
Thoughts on the Enterprise - J?
We don't really get a good look at it, do we? From what I've seen it looks like a throwaway design. One issue that has long been criticized by some with the TOS design was that the pylons looked too slender for the mass they support, even if you acknowledge new materiels and new construction techniques. But a lot of other designs compound the problem (like the E-J and other fan designs). The TMP refit has a similar issue (if one cares to dwell on it). The E-D and a few others did address this even if I didn't care for the final results.

I was also mindful of that remark in "Return To Tomorrow" about "engines the size of walnuts." Okay, we won't go walnet sized, but what if you could lessen the visual mass of the nacelles without looking unbalanced? That might also address the issue of pylon size.

The idea I was trying for isn't so much evolving from everything seen before throughout the franchise from one stage to the next, but to go back to the beginning and ask how to update that concept as if none of the others had happened.

TMP and TNG were evolutions of what came before, conceptually. JJtrek wasn't an evolution, but rather a rewind/reset button as filtered through his sensibilities.

Now one can go back to Roddenberry's essential ideas and do two things going forward: either create a new space adventure that has nothing to do with Star Trek while evoking some of the same ideas and sensibilities, or create a new Star Trek that builds from familiar things yet goes forward as if none of what we saw onscreen happened.

Of course, most everyone will have different interpretations in approach and they will emphasize different things. And if you are intent on doing Star Trek then you're faced with another two choices: either set it in the familiar continuity at some point and work to fit within it, or cut the umbilical and do it with a largely clean sheet that has elements of the familiar while allowing you more creative freedom. The first option is fraught with challenge as we've seen with every incarnation in the franchise. Some can accept it while others get upset. Abrams stepped into the same pool with his approach as he tried to say it was a complete reboot, but supposedly still tied to what came before. Some accept it and others are pissed off.

So my thought is why not update what got the whole thing started yet without being tied to everything that followed? Meaning a genuine restart.


This idea will never see the light of day beyond my own imagination. But to that end I'm free to envision it as I please. It's a thought exercise starting with an interpretation of the Matt Jefferies' design as filtered through a 21st century perception and acknowledging all the changes seen in real science and technology as well as science fiction.
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Old March 25 2014, 06:34 PM   #15
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Re: TOS in the 29th century...

Frankly, were they to reboot Star Trek in the 29th century, this is indeed what I want to see:

Enterprise F by Mark Kingsnorth

(Oversize image replaced with link - please keep images to reasonable sizes (800px - 1000px maximum width), and NO EMBEDDED IMAGES from sites that are not your personal site. - Ptrope)
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