Abrams Directing Star Wars

[DalekJim]

Nagisa Furukawa wrote:

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Oh, come on. With the rare exception of a Da Vinci Code or Twilight or 50 Shades of Grey now and then, the greater public stays away from books. I don't even see how this is being disputed.

Yeah, I only know a few other people that read. I really didn't think it'd be controversial of me to even say that. Most of my friends' bookshelves contain only maybe 3 Harry Potter books, maybe a bit of Dan Brown shlock and a Beano annual? A conversation about literature would last all of 20 seconds. They're infinitely more interested in films, videogames, music etc.

More to the point, people have made fun of me reading at least twice in the past week alone. It's a completely alien activity to many that somebody would read a book for fun. Most ditch 'em after school.

[JoeZhang]

DalekJim wrote:

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Yeah, I only know a few other people that read.

"I fink" isn't evidence that people don't read, it's evidence that you jump to wild conclusions based on your own personal circumstances.

[Nagisa Furukawa]

Nerys Myk wrote:

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Again, explain what was rude about what Dennis said in his post. Is he wrong?

I dunno what he said this time, but I participated in a discussion with him a few days ago where he said it was "needed" to have people's feelings hurt and he regularly says stuff like, "I love Trek. Trek fandom, I can take or leave " While I don't always agree with DalekJim's confrontational tone, I certainly understand his exasperation with My Name Is Legion, whose posts regularly seem to be baiting and mocking people for having nerdy qualities on... a message board made up of nerds.

[DalekJim]

JoeZhang wrote:

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"I fink" isn't evidence that people don't read, it's evidence that you jump to wild conclusions based on your own personal circumstances.

I'm not jumping to any conclusions. Generally speaking, people don't really read that much any more, look at book sakes. Or uh, book stores. If you can even find many that aren't major chains. As Nagisa said, I have no idea how this could be disputed but as it's completely off-topic it's maybe best to move on.

[JoeZhang]

No, he doesn't mock people for having nerdy qualities - he mocks them because they think that their nerdy tendencies make them better than other people or give them special insight or entitlement (or at least that is how I see it).

I have read every single issue of 2000ad every printed, same for the megazine - it means fuck all in the wider scheme of things and I don't expect it to be taken account of, cared for or looked after when a Dredd movie was made.

[Nagisa Furukawa]

JoeZhang wrote:

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"I fink" isn't evidence that people don't read, it's evidence that you jump to wild conclusions based on your own personal circumstances.

If you don't think a substantially smaller percentage of the population reads than experiences other forms of media, or that the very act of reading is culturally looked down upon in a way no other form of media is, then I want to live where you are. This has nothing to do with where anyone's personal experiences; it's how the culture is. Social media? Okay. Listening to music? Okay. Watching a movie? Okay. Reading a book? Nowhere near as common as those others.

[Nerys Myk]

Nagisa Furukawa wrote:

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I've rarely seen such a baffling statement. Comic book movies and cult oriented adaptations have gotten WAY more accurate than they used to. Over 10 years ago, they were planning to make an Iron Man movie where the main villain was his father who was also War Machine. The fact that we got an Iron Man film that, while updated, is fairly accurate and ended with Nick Fury appearing and saying the Avengers is something that only could have come about in the Internet age where people can Google Nick Fury and the Avengers and go, "Ahhh." We've moved on insanely far from when Judge Dredd would go without his helmet half the movie and kiss a girl or where John Constantine is a dark haired Keanu Reeves. We're at a point where most filmmakers of geek properties want to satisfy the general public AND the Comic-Con audience instead of completely abandoning the latter for the former but by doing so, making something that has no real spark to attract the general public.

Well, having read comics for over 40 years I can pretty much pick apart any comic film for "accuracy". From costuming,characterization, backstory and faithfulness. Mostly they take the bits and pieces that can work on film and go with that. And there's nothing wrong with that. "Fan service" would be bringing the properties to the screen unchanged. Which frankly is always a bad idea.

Lately it seems the tail is wagging the dog as the comics are trying to look more like the movies. Iron Man's is written with Downey in mind. The new Captain America costume looks more like the movie version. Which would look great on film but is horrible on the printed page.

[DalekJim]

Nagisa Furukawa wrote:

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If you don't think a substantially smaller percentage of the population reads than experiences other forms of media, or that the very act of reading is culturally looked down upon in a way no other form of media is, then I want to live where you are. This has nothing to do with where anyone's personal experiences; it's how the culture is. Social media? Okay. Listening to music? Okay. Watching a movie? Okay. Reading a book? Nowhere near as common as those others.

I got called a loser for saying I'd like to stay in and read only like.. 3 days ago. It's completely taboo. And if you do read it's only really acceptable if it's one of the series that have been adapted in to films.

[Nerys Myk]

DalekJim wrote:

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I got called a loser for saying I'd like to stay in and read only like.. 3 days ago. It's completely taboo. And if you do read it's only really acceptable if it's one of the series that have been adapted in to films.

Its a big diverse world out there. Go out and experience it. There are more opinions than the ones expressed by your small circle of friends.

[JoeZhang]

DalekJim wrote:

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I'm not jumping to any conclusions. Generally speaking, people don't really read that much any more.

Yes, yes you are - you are asserting that people 'don't read that much any more' that is a conclusion, your evidential base is "I fink" and "people I know".

I think you are quite young? Views based on what you know personally are simply a reflection of our own experiences and biases. Let's say you knew some black people and they were lazy, would you pop up on here and claim that all black people are lazy?


Let's play a game called 'evidence'.

I'll start and then you join in, the Kasier Family foundation found that the amount of time that 8-18 year olds spent reading for pleasure increased between 1999-2010.

Now you present something that evidences your claim that "people don't really read that much any more".

[Shazam!]

JoeZhang wrote:

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"I fink" isn't evidence that people don't read, it's evidence that you jump to wild conclusions based on your own personal circumstances.

DalekJim may be generalising a wee bit but it's obviously not unheard for your own experiences to influence your findings. Everybody does it (see the countless "well, my friend now likes Star Trek..." line that is wheeled out when someone dismisses Trek XI's lasting impact) so I don't 'fink' it's unreasonable to at least be civil in your reply.

[Nagisa Furukawa]

JoeZhang wrote:

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No, he doesn't mock people for having nerdy qualities - he mocks them because they think that their nerdy tendencies make them better than other people or give them special insight or entitlement (or at least that is how I see it).

A ridiculous thing to mock others for. I don't expect or want anyone to cater to me either, I've got enough media I enjoy and can create my own to satisfy myself, but it's common human nature to get territorial about something one enjoys, especially when one feels like outside intervention is going to change the reason they like it. 99% of people, including the oft-discussed "general public," don't think of things they like in terms of whether a greater group of people will similarly like it; they think in terms of whether they like it and speak accordingly. Add in many nerds' social skills problems and inability to understand the gap between their wants and others. I don't necessarily agree with someone saying JJ Abrams NEEDS to make the Trek they want to watch (although let's face it; this is basically what anyone who criticizes something and says should have been done like "X" instead is saying), but bullying others for feeling that way is worse.

[Shazam!]

JoeZhang wrote:

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Yes, yes you are - you are asserting that people 'don't read that much any more' that is a conclusion, your evidential base is "I fink" and "people I know".

Let's play a game called 'evidence'.

I'll start and then you join in, the Kasier Family foundation found that the amount of time that 8-18 year olds spent reading for pleasure increased between 1999-2010.

Now you present something that evidences your claim that "people really read that much any more".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19511825

[DalekJim]

Seriously, of all the weird crap I've posted during my time here I had no idea casually mentioning that people don't read much any more would be controversial. I just... thought that was accepted now? I dunno, maybe I'm one of the younger people here and that explains it but I find it weird people wouldn't be aware that books haven't exactly been in vogue for a long, long time.

[Nagisa Furukawa]

JoeZhang wrote:

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I think you are quite young? Views based on what you know personally are simply a reflection of our own experiences and biases. Let's say you knew some black people and they were lazy, would you pop up on here and claim that all black people are lazy?

You're really going THERE??

Shazam! wrote:

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DalekJim may be generalising a wee bit but it's obviously not unheard for your own experiences to influence your findings. Everybody does it (see the countless "well, my friend now likes Star Trek..." line that is wheeled out when someone dismisses Trek XI's lasting impact) so I don't 'fink' it's unreasonable to at least be civil in your reply.

Thank you. While yes, individual personal experience is rather limited and doesn't always portray a larger picture, it's futile to only discuss things from a detached, "objective" manner and not bring personal experience into it, especially with the advent of the Internet, we're aware of cultural trends and the opinions of people who live thousands of miles away and since studies and statistics are not nearly as clear-cut "evidence" as you seem to think. Tons of factors must go into knowing the context to understand how much has been skewed. Who gave the study? For how long? How many people? For what reasons did this behavior change? To what degree (IE, was it the number of books going up or the number of people reading in the first place)? etc.