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Old August 27 2013, 01:18 PM   #91
KaraBear
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

Lynx wrote: View Post
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it seems to me like everything fits fine. Jennifer lien and a few other actors had three year contracts, others had a full seven year contract. After three years her contract was not renewed, she left the show. What missing pieces are there?

and does it really matter? it was so many years ago, everyone involved has moved on. And in my opinon the show got much better season 4 on so perhaps the change was for the better.

I have heard many people say that Lien was never comfortable in front of the camera and she was not upset to go, even the other actors said that

Immediately after Kate Mulgrew filmed her scenes of the first four episodes of Star Trek: Voyager's fourth season, she remarked, "She'll probably be a big movie star, you know? I'm sure it's happened for a reason." Mulgrew also speculated, "It may be good [for the series] in the long run. I trust my producers on this level, because they are good people, and they're looking at the welfare of the show." (Star Trek Monthly issue 33, p. 20)
During the fifth season, Dawson reflected, "It was hard losing Jennifer. It was something that I guess just happened, and I think Jennifer needed to move on as well.
anyway, like I said, if the actors themselves said something happened a certain way, that's what I'll believe since I wasn't there myself. If you think the actors are lying and covering up some conspiracy that's your business, either way I still have a show that I love
Well, nothing new here. I've seen this many, many times, those kind of statements. Not only in the movie business.

I can go back all the way to 1963 when Pete Best was fired from The Beatles (the reason was that the others wanted Ringo Starr as drummer because they liked him better). It was there, all the statements about "mutual agreements" and everybody's happy. Many, many years later, Pete Best revealed in his biography how sad, angry and deprssed he was for many years after being kicked out from the band.

There are many similar stories.

Not to mention that I've seen it myself too. "Don't write it or say it to anyone but we actually kicked X from the band, he's such an a**hole!" Then meeting a really angry X the next week: "Those pigs! I'm a better songwriter and guitar player than Y and he can't stand it, therefore he and the other cowards fired me!" But officially, it was all "mutual agreement" and everybody's happy.

Ever since I started to investigate the "Lien case" back in 1998, there are too many things which doesn't fit in. It's too much official gloss painting on the wall. Especially compared to cases where there has been someone who left of their own free will, just like in the "NCIS Caitlin Todd case" I've mentioned before.

As for Mulgrew, she has showed her discontent with the firing of Lien many times. Just look at the season 3 DVD extras.

Beltran has also stated that Lien should have remained in the show.

Personally I think that the show lost a lot when Kes was kicked out. I don't think that the show was better in the later seasons which is a reason that I only own the season 1-3 DVD:s.
As I said earlier, of course the actors were sad to see her go. They were a close cast. But sadness to see someone leave doesn't mean there were hard feelings about it. That is the life of an actor, she was lucky to have three years which is something that many actors don't even get.

And as I said, since I wasn't there I will go with what the actors said. If you think they're lying that's cool. Either way I still love Voyager espeically the later seasons.

and since I've just been repeating myself this is my last responce on this matter, thanks for the discussion
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Old August 27 2013, 01:20 PM   #92
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
They Gave Kim a terminal case of space herpes.

They stuck Janeway in a coma too.

A lot of the actors must have had three year contracts.
a few of them did, Ethan Phillips and Garrett Wang had three year contracts too I believe.
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Old August 27 2013, 06:13 PM   #93
teya
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

KaraBear wrote: View Post
I thought the character was interesting to begin with, she was something different. It was different to see a character that only lived 9 years because every other species on Trek has a longer life span than humans. It would have been interesting to see someone's whole life played out durring the run of the show.

But other than that she wasn't that unique, her short lifespan was the only unique thing about her. Pointy ears, mental powers, that's nothing new in Trek
If they'd actually done something with the short lifespan, it would have been interesting.

Say they'd made her lifespan 7 years. And then aged her year after year.

You'd have a character who lived a full lifetime within the seven year series. Would have been interesting to see if Jen was up to the challenge.

However, according to some this is a horrendous idea, because how dare I suggest that aging & dying is a part of living, and something that would have repercussion on all of the characters.
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Old August 27 2013, 06:34 PM   #94
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

teya wrote: View Post
KaraBear wrote: View Post
I thought the character was interesting to begin with, she was something different. It was different to see a character that only lived 9 years because every other species on Trek has a longer life span than humans. It would have been interesting to see someone's whole life played out durring the run of the show.

But other than that she wasn't that unique, her short lifespan was the only unique thing about her. Pointy ears, mental powers, that's nothing new in Trek
If they'd actually done something with the short lifespan, it would have been interesting.

Say they'd made her lifespan 7 years. And then aged her year after year.

You'd have a character who lived a full lifetime within the seven year series. Would have been interesting to see if Jen was up to the challenge.

However, according to some this is a horrendous idea, because how dare I suggest that aging & dying is a part of living, and something that would have repercussion on all of the characters.
I think that would be really interesting to see. Though I don't think that Lien would be up to such a challenge. With playing out her whole life I can see some possible interesting story lines, lets say she was involved in a romantic relationship, you have that character dealing with her impending death, you have her friends dealing with it, her dealing with aging while everyone else alround he remails relatively the same....lots of potential

oh and there's another thought, would you as a human persue a relationship with someone who wuld only live 9 years? would you have a child with them knowing they wouldn't live much more than that
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Old August 27 2013, 06:38 PM   #95
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

teya wrote: View Post
If they'd actually done something with the short lifespan, it would have been interesting.
I agree that the episodes writtern for Kes were weak. They were too focused on her being a repressed entity blossoming into new, unknown powers, namely her psychic ability. Before and After, though, was a strong episode for her.

That said, Kes' presence on the ship, due in no small part to the actress, did a lot to cement together the social life of the crew. Obviously, the Maquis and Starfleet crews melded together in a somewhat miraculous and underanalyzed manner. However, Kes brought specific characters together, whom otherwise might have never learned to trust one another: Paris, Tuvok and Neelix. Moreover, the Doctor was largely prodded by Kes to explore his existence beyond being a computer program. It's impossible to see the Doctor's development without her, and no other character could have credibly pushed the Doctor in the way Kes did (certainly not Seven of Nine).

Kes' influence was the spark for a lot of the development that did occur on the show.
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Old August 27 2013, 06:47 PM   #96
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
teya wrote: View Post
If they'd actually done something with the short lifespan, it would have been interesting.
I agree that the episodes writtern for Kes were weak. They were too focused on her being a repressed entity blossoming into new, unknown powers, namely her psychic ability. Before and After, though, was a strong episode for her.

That said, Kes' presence on the ship, due in no small part to the actress, did a lot to cement together the social life of the crew. Obviously, the Maquis and Starfleet crews melded together in a somewhat miraculous and underanalyzed manner. However, Kes brought specific characters together, whom otherwise might have never learned to trust one another: Paris, Tuvok and Neelix. Moreover, the Doctor was largely prodded by Kes to explore his existence beyond being a computer program. It's impossible to see the Doctor's development without her, and no other character could have credibly pushed the Doctor in the way Kes did (certainly not Seven of Nine).

Kes' influence was the spark for a lot of the development that did occur on the show.
I don't know if I agree with that. The Doctor had a desire to expand himself, I think he would have either way.

And how did Kes bring Paris, Tuvok, and Neelix together?
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Old August 27 2013, 07:18 PM   #97
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

KaraBear wrote: View Post
JiNX-01 wrote: View Post
Gryffindorian wrote: View Post
But I'm glad they didn't go with Genevieve Bujold.
I whole-heartedly second this.
oh yes, I saw those scenes with her that were on the dvd and I'm glad she decided to pull out. I haven't seen her in anything else so I don't know if she's better suited to movies, but voyager was definately not the right fit for her
We'll never know how good she might have ben in the role. After all watching those scenes on the DVD in the back of our minds is how it compares to Kate Mulgrew.
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Old August 27 2013, 07:20 PM   #98
teya
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

KaraBear wrote: View Post
oh and there's another thought, would you as a human persue a relationship with someone who wuld only live 9 years? would you have a child with them knowing they wouldn't live much more than that
And the answer would be different depending on the character.

My aunt married a man who'd had a glioblastoma resected from his brain. They had 2 kids. The cancer recurred when the youngest was 3 months old.

I always thought that was incredibly brave--to fall in love with & marry someone who you knew would make you a young widow.

Then I found myself in the same position when I met my sweetie. And I understood why she'd done it.

You learn a great deal about living from folks who have a keen sense of their own mortality.

I made the same choice she did--minus the children.
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Old August 27 2013, 07:38 PM   #99
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

teya wrote: View Post
KaraBear wrote: View Post
oh and there's another thought, would you as a human persue a relationship with someone who wuld only live 9 years? would you have a child with them knowing they wouldn't live much more than that
And the answer would be different depending on the character.

My aunt married a man who'd had a glioblastoma resected from his brain. They had 2 kids. The cancer recurred when the youngest was 3 months old.

I always thought that was incredibly brave--to fall in love with & marry someone who you knew would make you a young widow.

Then I found myself in the same position when I met my sweetie. And I understood why she'd done it.

You learn a great deal about living from folks who have a keen sense of their own mortality.

I made the same choice she did--minus the children.
I guess the time you have with them is worth it, but damn I can't imagine going into a relationship knowing that. I'm sorry about your husband Teya
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Old August 27 2013, 08:21 PM   #100
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

Lighthammer wrote: View Post
I do tend to think evaluating series progression, Voyager tended to be a lot stronger of a series (as a whole) then TNG or DS9 and that's wholly because of the progression in writing and story telling.
In what alternate universe?
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Old August 27 2013, 08:32 PM   #101
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

I loved Voyager very much and Jennifer Lien too, but I understand why the producers do not renewed her contract. The character stuck and wasn't developed very well...I don't know which fault it was, but seriously...it was time to change something...and sorry for it: but Jeri Ryan's character was much more intresting (I mean not the hot appearence of her).

The strongest and best characters are Janeway, The Doctor and Seven of Nine. On Average: Torres and maybe Tuvok. The weakest are Kim, Kes and Paris (more because of bad actors).
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Old August 27 2013, 09:16 PM   #102
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

Loci2378 wrote: View Post
I loved Voyager very much and Jennifer Lien too, but I understand why the producers do not renewed her contract. The character stuck and wasn't developed very well...I don't know which fault it was, but seriously...it was time to change something...and sorry for it: but Jeri Ryan's character was much more intresting (I mean not the hot appearence of her).

The strongest and best characters are Janeway, The Doctor and Seven of Nine. On Average: Torres and maybe Tuvok. The weakest are Kim, Kes and Paris (more because of bad actors).
What about Chakotay, but to address the point actors work with what is written. If a character isn't developed whose fault is that the actors or the writers?

Now you could possible argue that the writers went with the stronger actors, but could that mean they cast the wrong actors?
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Old August 27 2013, 09:20 PM   #103
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Loci2378 wrote: View Post
I loved Voyager very much and Jennifer Lien too, but I understand why the producers do not renewed her contract. The character stuck and wasn't developed very well...I don't know which fault it was, but seriously...it was time to change something...and sorry for it: but Jeri Ryan's character was much more intresting (I mean not the hot appearence of her).

The strongest and best characters are Janeway, The Doctor and Seven of Nine. On Average: Torres and maybe Tuvok. The weakest are Kim, Kes and Paris (more because of bad actors).
What about Chakotay, but to address the point actors work with what is written. If a character isn't developed whose fault is that the actors or the writers?

Now you could possible argue that the writers went with the stronger actors, but could that mean they cast the wrong actors?
but on the other hand if you're a writer, will you be giving your best stuff to someone who goes out and publicly bashes you?
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Old August 27 2013, 09:28 PM   #104
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

KaraBear wrote: View Post
but on the other hand if you're a writer, will you be giving your best stuff to someone who goes out and publicly bashes you?
*applause*

Exactly.

I'll also point out that the best actors make a minor character shine. The Doctor wasn't supposed to be as big a character as he was. And his scenes in the pilot weren't all that promising. However, Picardo took the ball and ran away with it. He showed the writers what a gold mine they had.

And they rose to the challenge.
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Old August 27 2013, 09:32 PM   #105
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Re: What happened to Jennifer Lien?

teya wrote: View Post
KaraBear wrote: View Post
but on the other hand if you're a writer, will you be giving your best stuff to someone who goes out and publicly bashes you?
*applause*

Exactly.

I'll also point out that the best actors make a minor character shine. The Doctor wasn't supposed to be as big a character as he was. And his scenes in the pilot weren't all that promising. However, Picardo took the ball and ran away with it. He showed the writers what a gold mine they had.

And they rose to the challenge.
Something I've noticed while watching voyager, and other shows as well, is people in the background. when the camera is not focused on them who is still in character pressing buttons and still "in" the scene, and who zones out and stands around waiting to spout their next line.
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