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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old February 11 2014, 10:14 AM   #151
Rincewiend
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Re: Absolute worst character in DS9 History: Ezri Dax

JD5000 wrote: View Post
DS9 could hold almost 7x as many people as the Enterprise-D, and there was a reasonably proportionate portrayal of the percentage of those residents that were families with children.

dub wrote:
it's not a stretch to assume the position isn't standard and is per request of the commanding officer.
I think that's plausible, the 'counselor' role and it's need is pretty open to conjecture, I think it's one of the less-defined positions.
The Bajorans and other races might have had their own counselors...
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Old February 12 2014, 10:31 PM   #152
Worf'sParmach
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Re: Absolute worst character in DS9 History: Ezri Dax

JD5000 wrote: View Post
Not much of a scroller, so sorry if someone else already mentioned this. I find it odd that a space station in one of the most remote Federation areas dealing with the aftermath of a decades-long brutal occupation didn't have a counselor before Ezri came along. Seems like Starfleet puts psychiatrists in the same places they put physicians, in anything I can think of.
DS9 did have a counselor. Julian mentions one in "Hard Time" when asking Miles about whether he was going to his sessions. So the question really is, whatever happened to Telnorri?

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Telnorri

(And I agree with the sentiment that Jadzia was way more of a "Mary Sue" than Ezri was.)
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Old February 13 2014, 02:40 AM   #153
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Re: Absolute worst character in DS9 History: Ezri Dax

Worf'sParmach wrote: View Post

(And I agree with the sentiment that Jadzia was way more of a "Mary Sue" than Ezri was.)
Too true. Hot girl who everyone is madly in love with; brilliant; wise; badass warrior who can easily dispatch Klingons; always throwing out [supposedly] brilliant quips; no-nonsense I'll-kick-your-ass-and-drink-you-under-the-table-but-damn-it-I'm-still-the-picture-of-femininity-and-sexuality...

And, of course, her demeanor, personality, and background change to suit whatever situation the writers have cooked up in a given week.

I used to really like Jadzia, but I much prefer Ezri now. She's a human being (figure of speech, in this case) with strengths and weaknesses, and honestly I think she treats people better too.
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Old February 13 2014, 02:49 AM   #154
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Re: Absolute worst character in DS9 History: Ezri Dax

I liked Ezri from the off, it doesn't mean I don't think she was superfluous to the show.
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Old February 13 2014, 04:10 AM   #155
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Re: Absolute worst character in DS9 History: Ezri Dax

ZeNd wrote: View Post
Just finished watching DS9 from start to finish for about the 15th time or so and I **NEVER** liked Ezri since it's original run. She just did not fit the show, didn't fit Starfleet, and felt *rushed* as a last minute way to pop a character on the show to replace Dax. Combined with the fact that there were way too many episodes trying to develop her crappy character makes her the worst cast member in DS9 history. Maybe in the entire Stat Trek Universe beating out Neelix.

They should of just let Dax die with Jadzia, or maybe make Erzi leave DS9 after the 2nd episode on that starship as the councilor. I think it was too fake anyway having Sisko warm up to Ezri so fast just because she had the Dax symbiont. Worfs initial attitude towards Dax was more realistic IMHO.
I tend to agree with you--let Dax go. It's war, and people die. Bring one of the recurring characters in full-time (Nog) and let the station feel a hole where Dax once was. I'd still take Ezri over the entire Voyager cast. Getting Ezri and Worf together felt contrived and like they didn't know what to do with them. The humor after they have sex just drives me up the wall. I liked the actress, but the space sickness and nerves just didn't appeal to me.

I think my nails-on-the-chalkboard character is Dr. Beverly Crusher. Every scene with her makes me cringe. That is my Ezri Dax.
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Old February 13 2014, 07:56 AM   #156
JD5000
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Re: Absolute worst character in DS9 History: Ezri Dax

WorfsParmach wrote:
DS9 did have a counselor. Julian mentions one in "Hard Time" when asking Miles about whether he was going to his sessions. So the question really is, whatever happened to Telnorri?
Good catch, I had totally forgotten about that character. Instantly rang the bell after reading your post!
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Old February 13 2014, 02:23 PM   #157
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Re: Absolute worst character in DS9 History: Ezri Dax

We just did our Ezri podcast, might be a good counterpoint.
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Old February 13 2014, 03:47 PM   #158
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Re: Absolute worst character in DS9 History: Ezri Dax

I liked Ezri but I hated most of the writing they did for her.

In the first few episodes, they were basically forced to write her as unstable and neurotic just because of the backstory they gave her. And they did it all in this very sitcom way that made embarrassing use of the "Oh, sorry, I can't take back your resignation letter. Because I never sent it!" trope. Once we got past that we had weird standalone episodes that didn't advance her relationship with the other characters like the one with her family and the one with Joran. It did make sense that she would have a lot of sexual tension with Worf just because, well, she has a lot of memories of sex with him.

Getting together with Bashir made sense but not with how rushed they did it. If they had made Bashir pursue her near the start of the season maybe it could have worked but instead he just moped around about Jadzia for the year then suddenly asked her out it what seemed like it was more vicariously dating Jadzia than dating Ezri. They never really established a relationship between Ezri and Bashir that wasn't all about Bashir having pursued Jadzia.

Instead of forcing a new character into the cast that the knew they wouldn't have time to develop they should have just given their best secondaries more prominent roles.
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Old February 14 2014, 03:19 PM   #159
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Re: Absolute worst character in DS9 History: Ezri Dax

Roddenberry wrote: View Post
I liked Ezri from the off, it doesn't mean I don't think she was superfluous to the show.
I really don't get this argument. What can possibly make any of these characters 'superfluous'?

There isn't any standard blueprint for a Trek show that says we need this, this, this and this, and if we've got those characters, then everyone is immaterial and shouldn't ever be focused on. Ezri has a place in the stories, a place on the station and a place within the relationships among the main crew/cast. That is pretty much the exact opposite of superfluous...

Her relationship with Worf actually gave us one of my favorite moments from the series (when Worf finally faces up to the sad state of the Empire).
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Old February 14 2014, 04:53 PM   #160
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Re: Absolute worst character in DS9 History: Ezri Dax

Her relationship with Worf actually gave us one of my favorite moments from the series (when Worf finally faces up to the sad state of the Empire).
I loved this scene, by Ezri being there and not being Jadzia, they were able to do something that could not have done with Jadzia. They utilize the uniqueness of Ezri to the fullest extent here and set up one of the most memorable scenes in all of Star Trek, Worf killing Gowron! She is, in my opinion a very good character that is well used and well written, especially considering it is the 7th and final season of a very serialized show.
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Old February 14 2014, 05:27 PM   #161
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Re: Absolute worst character in DS9 History: Ezri Dax

Would you say Worf cut "The Gowronian Knot"?
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Old February 14 2014, 08:57 PM   #162
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Re: Absolute worst character in DS9 History: Ezri Dax

grendelsbayne wrote: View Post
Her relationship with Worf actually gave us one of my favorite moments from the series (when Worf finally faces up to the sad state of the Empire).
I loved that too, it was a great moment for both of them. It made me really like Ezri as a character and their dynamic was very good. I wish there was more left of the show so we could more of that type of interaction.
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Old February 14 2014, 09:16 PM   #163
JD5000
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Re: Absolute worst character in DS9 History: Ezri Dax

I felt like the Ezri-Worf and also Bashir love triangle did more for Worf's character development than it did for either of the other characters. One of the most consistent character themes from TNG through DS9 is Worf's progress towards confronting his emotions like a warrior instead of avoiding them. This culminates in him having to deal with Ezri possessing all the memories of his deceased wife and having to deal with her in day to day life. Talk about a crappy way to have to overcome a tragic life event.

Exri has (what is it, nine, at this point?) lifetimes of experience in dealing with tragedy. Worf is the one who bears the brunt of the loss of Jadzia and the insertion of Ezri into the story.
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Old February 16 2014, 02:24 AM   #164
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Re: Absolute worst character in DS9 History: Ezri Dax

Every show who introduces a new character focuses a lot on that new character. Seven of Nine on Voyager is another example. Or even Worf in DS9. It's just a shame they introduced Ezri in the final season, so they had to spend several episodes establishing her character rather than tying up some other loose ends in the show .
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Old February 16 2014, 07:23 AM   #165
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Re: Absolute worst character in DS9 History: Ezri Dax

While I thought Jadzia was hot and Ezri waz cute, I could take or leave either actress. Jadzia played the perfect smart ass, but I didn't think she pulled off someone who had 300 years of experience very well. Ezri certainly didn't either, but it was explained well enough, as she was basically forcibly joined (or peer pressured into it), but I found the Ezri-centric episodes a bit tedious.

Personally, I think they should have hired Suzie Plakson to play Jadzia (she could have appeared as she did as female Q, with jadzia's spots)...not only is she 10 times the actress either one of those two are, but it would have been VERY interesting to see her, as Jadzia, hook up with Worf. They had good chemistry when she played K'Ehleyr.

I mean let's be real... the K'Ehleyr/Worf relationship WAS what the Jadzia/Worf relationship was trying to ape, after all.
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