RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,579
Posts: 5,403,199
Members: 24,865
Currently online: 480
Newest member: shyrim

TrekToday headlines

October-November 2014 Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

Cho Selfie TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

TPTB To Shatner: Shhh!
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

Mystery Mini Vinyl Figure Display Box
By: T'Bonz on Sep 29

The Red Shirt Diaries Episode Five
By: T'Bonz on Sep 29

Shatner In Trek 3? Well Maybe
By: T'Bonz on Sep 28

Retro Review: Shadows and Symbols
By: Michelle on Sep 27

Meyer: Revitalizing Star Trek
By: T'Bonz on Sep 26

Trek Costumes To Be Auctioned
By: T'Bonz on Sep 25

Hulu Snaps up Abrams-Produced Drama
By: T'Bonz on Sep 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 21 2013, 05:17 AM   #226
Saul
Rear Admiral
 
Saul's Avatar
 
Location: 東京
Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

Of course, but when you get to 700 episodes and 11 movies it's difficult not to label things as canon when the creators and producers have tried to follow that line and have it all set within one universe by claiming things to be within continuity of other series and movies.


Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ Quite. Even if STXI had been a flat-out reboot, not mentioning anything from the prime universe (and not having any kind of time travel), it STILL wouldn't have been anything other than an alternate timeline - it still wouldn't have destroyed the prime universe or anything like that.
That depends on the viewers personal belief if there actually is an alternate universe and we'd be arguing if there is or isn't till the cows come home.
__________________
"It's not that you can see the strings, it's that 40 years later you're still looking at them." - Steven Moffat
"This movie was big. Imagine how big it could have been with me in it?" William Shatner
Saul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21 2013, 06:52 AM   #227
Geoff Peterson
Fleet Admiral
 
Geoff Peterson's Avatar
 
Location: 20 feet from an outlet
Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

Saul wrote: View Post
That depends on the viewers personal belief if there actually is an alternate universe and we'd be arguing if there is or isn't till the cows come home.
Uh, what?
__________________
Nerys Myk
Geoff Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21 2013, 06:55 AM   #228
DaveyNY
Commodore
 
DaveyNY's Avatar
 
Location: DaveyNY
Send a message via AIM to DaveyNY Send a message via Yahoo to DaveyNY
Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

So are we kinda-sorta back to thinking that Weller IS Carol Marcus' dad??

Or Harcourt Fenton Mudd??

(I think I'm more confused now... )
__________________
I must go out in2 space again for the call of adventure cries. With a steady hand & robust crew I'll take her forth with pride. I must go out in2 space again to a vagabond Captains life. Where comets play & galaxies sway like whirlwinds in the night.
DaveyNY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21 2013, 10:19 AM   #229
Saul
Rear Admiral
 
Saul's Avatar
 
Location: 東京
Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Saul wrote: View Post
That depends on the viewers personal belief if there actually is an alternate universe and we'd be arguing if there is or isn't till the cows come home.
Uh, what?
Exactly.
__________________
"It's not that you can see the strings, it's that 40 years later you're still looking at them." - Steven Moffat
"This movie was big. Imagine how big it could have been with me in it?" William Shatner
Saul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21 2013, 11:15 AM   #230
F. King Daniel
Admiral
 
F. King Daniel's Avatar
 
Location: King Daniel Into Darkness
Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ Quite. Even if STXI had been a flat-out reboot, not mentioning anything from the prime universe (and not having any kind of time travel), it STILL wouldn't have been anything other than an alternate timeline - it still wouldn't have destroyed the prime universe or anything like that.
Fans still would have complained about every change just the same - just look at Smallville. Explicitly a new adaptation of Superman, yet fans reamed it every time it deviated from comic or film continuity. I'm sure Man of Steel is getting the same treatment in some circles now.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
F. King Daniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21 2013, 02:57 PM   #231
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

daveyNY wrote: View Post
So are we kinda-sorta back to thinking that Weller IS Carol Marcus' dad??

Or Harcourt Fenton Mudd??

(I think I'm more confused now... )
I'm guessing he's Carol Marcus's dad. At the very least, I think it likely Alex Marcus is going to a prominent character in the movie, based only on the fact that his name was in bold print when April said it, implying he's going to be a key player. Twenty years is enough time for Commander Marcus to become Admiral Marcus, a "CEO type" who could have his own starship.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21 2013, 04:01 PM   #232
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

Saul wrote: View Post
Of course, but when you get to 700 episodes and 11 movies it's difficult not to label things as canon when the creators and producers have tried to follow that line and have it all set within one universe by claiming things to be within continuity of other series and movies.
Yes, I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying it's important to understand that "canon" is a concept with a lot of ambiguities to it, and it needs to be taken with a grain of salt and not obsessed over the way fans today tend to do.

Bottom line, no matter how much creators may put forth the conceit that it's all one universe, it's not. It's not a "universe" at all because it doesn't exist. It's just stories. Canon is just about categorizing one set of stories versus a different set of stories, but they're all equally imaginary, and definitions of canon can be changed or abandoned at a whim. There is meaning to canon, yes, but its importance should not be blown out of proportion.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21 2013, 05:12 PM   #233
Franklin
Rear Admiral
 
Location: In the bleachers
Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

It's not entirely on topic, but the link below lists a lot of the continuity errors in M*A*S*H, and they're worse than almost anything in Trek. Some are downright sloppy. My point? Over the years, comparatively, the Trek folks have done a pretty good job being as consistent as they've been across several TV shows and all the movies.

Of course, M*A*S*H remains one of the most highly regarded, intelligent, ground-breaking, and well-written TV shows of all time. So, I hope clicking on the link and reading the list doesn't negate everything else and all of a sudden ruin the show for any fans.

http://sharetv.org/shows/mash/goofs
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21 2013, 05:18 PM   #234
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

^No reason why inconsistencies should ruin anything. It's fiction, after all. Every bit of it is just pretend, so it's not so horrible if you pretend that some earlier part happened differently than you pretended before. Sure, consistency is nice to have, but it's not the sole, exclusive priority of fiction.

And it's not like the makers of M*A*S*H had any idea that their show about a 3-year war would run for 11 seasons. Eventually they had no choice but to play fast and loose with continuity and chronology.

But I'm not talking about internal consistency here. What I'm saying is that, whatever Roberto Orci might say about the comics being "close to canon," he also quite explicitly says that they are not part of the canon, so whatever they establish should be treated as less authoritative than what's onscreen. In Lucasfilm terms, they're "secondary canon" at best.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21 2013, 05:30 PM   #235
Saul
Rear Admiral
 
Saul's Avatar
 
Location: 東京
Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

Christopher wrote: View Post
Saul wrote: View Post
Of course, but when you get to 700 episodes and 11 movies it's difficult not to label things as canon when the creators and producers have tried to follow that line and have it all set within one universe by claiming things to be within continuity of other series and movies.
Bottom line, no matter how much creators may put forth the conceit that it's all one universe, it's not. It's not a "universe" at all because it doesn't exist.
Wha?


It's just stories.
WHAT??!?!

Canon is just about categorizing one set of stories versus a different set of stories, but they're all equally imaginary, and definitions of canon can be changed or abandoned at a whim.
__________________
"It's not that you can see the strings, it's that 40 years later you're still looking at them." - Steven Moffat
"This movie was big. Imagine how big it could have been with me in it?" William Shatner
Saul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21 2013, 06:27 PM   #236
Franklin
Rear Admiral
 
Location: In the bleachers
Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

Christopher wrote: View Post
^No reason why inconsistencies should ruin anything. It's fiction, after all. Every bit of it is just pretend, so it's not so horrible if you pretend that some earlier part happened differently than you pretended before. Sure, consistency is nice to have, but it's not the sole, exclusive priority of fiction.

And it's not like the makers of M*A*S*H had any idea that their show about a 3-year war would run for 11 seasons. Eventually they had no choice but to play fast and loose with continuity and chronology.

But I'm not talking about internal consistency here. What I'm saying is that, whatever Roberto Orci might say about the comics being "close to canon," he also quite explicitly says that they are not part of the canon, so whatever they establish should be treated as less authoritative than what's onscreen. In Lucasfilm terms, they're "secondary canon" at best.
Exactly my point. Inconsistencies shouldn't ruin anything. "M*A*S*H" was a brilliant show, and Trek ain't so bad, either. Anything can be picked to death for inconsistencies and errors and in doing so its great entertainment value is lost (unless there's entertainment in picking it to death). Nothing is meant to stand up to the scrutiny some give Trek. It wasn't really created for that.

I honestly don't know why anyone should take Trek canon more seriously than Roddenberry, himself did. Or more seriously than anyone else who has been associated with Trek in a production role has, for that matter.

Parenthetically, I don't even want to begin to try to fathom what "secondary canon" is.
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21 2013, 07:47 PM   #237
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

^Right. Keeping track of the continuity of a fictional universe can be a fun exercise; I've been doing it with Trek for decades. But it's important to remember that it's just part of the fun, and not take it too seriously or invest too much emotion in it. My personal version of Trek continuity has always been highly mutable; when something new has come along that contradicted my assumptions, I've just reworked them. And it's actually fun to rework the continuity, to get to play the game of fitting things together one more time in a new and fresh way. If I have to remove some books or comics I enjoyed, that's no problem, since they're still there for me to read; they're just in a different continuity category. (For a long time, the main thing that frustrated me was having to rewrite the entire chronology on new sheets of paper, or to erase a bunch of entries in pencil and rewrite them on new lines. It got much easier once I started keeping my chronology on computer.)
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22 2013, 05:25 AM   #238
Ketrick
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: Maryland
Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Right. Keeping track of the continuity of a fictional universe can be a fun exercise; I've been doing it with Trek for decades. But it's important to remember that it's just part of the fun, and not take it too seriously or invest too much emotion in it. My personal version of Trek continuity has always been highly mutable; when something new has come along that contradicted my assumptions, I've just reworked them. And it's actually fun to rework the continuity, to get to play the game of fitting things together one more time in a new and fresh way. If I have to remove some books or comics I enjoyed, that's no problem, since they're still there for me to read; they're just in a different continuity category. (For a long time, the main thing that frustrated me was having to rewrite the entire chronology on new sheets of paper, or to erase a bunch of entries in pencil and rewrite them on new lines. It got much easier once I started keeping my chronology on computer.)
Well said. I love Trek canon and continuity and although I may come off as taking them too seriously, I really do it for fun. I'll read a comment or see something on dvd and a thought comes to mind and I'm like "Cool! That's how that could fit.". In some ways, I really like when inconsistencies or gaps in Trek history happen because I see them as potential opportunities to create new stories, or at least plot elements, were I a Trek novelist or Trek creator.
Ketrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22 2013, 12:12 PM   #239
serenitytrek1
Commander
 
Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

does anbody feel that JJ Abrams is not reading the comics?
serenitytrek1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22 2013, 12:53 PM   #240
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: COUNTDOWN TO DARKNESS 5-page preview

serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
does anbody feel that JJ Abrams is not reading the comics?
Does it matter?
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:39 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.