Animated Series Blu-Ray Plans

[Christopher]

Warped9 wrote:

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To get a clean collection of TAS music tracks I suspect you'd simply have to get an orchestra together and recreate and re-record the music.

Easier said than done. At best it would only be an approximation. The conducting and performances would inevitably be different, as would subtler things like the timbre of the individual instruments, the acoustics of the studio, and the parameters of the recording equipment.

Warped9 wrote:

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Only the series is still followed after forty years. Check back with me in four decades and tell me if ST09 is still remembered.

Ironic to hear that in a thread about TAS, a show that's gotten far less acceptance over the decades than most incarnations of the franchise. Usually the newest incarnation attracts predictable negativity from the loyalists because of its differences from what they're used to, but a decade later they've changed their tune, having adjusted to its differences and glossed over its problems, and are busy complaining about how the next new incarnation has ruined the franchise. The reactions today about the Abrams movies are a carbon copy of the reactions to ENT a decade ago -- and a quarter-century ago, there was vehement and deep-rooted hostility toward TNG, now the second-most beloved incarnation. But TAS has always struggled for acceptance -- and yet it is still remembered, yes, absolutely. The idea that any incarnation of Star Trek would be completely forgotten is just plain silly.

And let's remember that this is a TAS thread. If you want to argue about the Abrams movies, please do it in a thread that's actually about that subject.

[Warped9]

^^ The film was referenced in the posted link and then became fair game. As far as tastes go I still loathe VOY and ENT and it's been quite a few years since they were introduced.

[TREK_GOD_1]

Christopher wrote:

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Easier said than done. At best it would only be an approximation. The conducting and performances would inevitably be different, as would subtler things like the timbre of the individual instruments, the acoustics of the studio, and the parameters of the recording equipment.

If the original recordings no longer exist, I think a happy medium would be Varese-like re-scored tracks. I imagine the entire collection would not run more than 2 or 3 CDs worth of music, since some of the cues were created for other Filmation series, so that would not be featured on a TAS soundtrack.

I would have no problem buying such a collection.

Usually the newest incarnation attracts predictable negativity from the loyalists because of its differences from what they're used to, but a decade later they've changed their tune, having adjusted to its differences and glossed over its problems, and are busy complaining about how the next new incarnation has ruined the franchise.

Key difference here is that over a decade after DS9's end, the general public--or even the majority of the Trek fanbase is not calling for its return. You do not see networks or cable trying to bring DS9, VOY or ENT back, which was the was the case with NBC not long after the demise of TOS (which--in part--paved the way for TAS). Roddenberry's 11th hour rejection of TAS has much to do with certain negative perceptions of it, but in its day, the show was praised by once-skeptical fans, won an Emmy and was considered far and above typcial--if not all Saturday morning material. Some thought it was serious enough to air during prime time.

Then, there's the ancillary side: during the era of laserdiscs, it was less than rare to see an entire animated series issued on the format; at best (or more common), double featured (or two sided) collections saw the light of shelves--and even that was rare. Then, there's TAS--released as a series box set in 1990 (and had been released as 2 episode VHS tapes earlier).

For such an expensive, niche / luxury format, it speaks to the notion that Paramount recognized the popularity of TAS as a vital part of the franchise, and felt it was a worthy, money-earning the effort--even on a format which at the time, was not serious competition to the videotape.

The Berman-period series--with a slight exception of TNG --are not pop culture phenomenons the public loves or requests more chapters from. Moreover, when TNG turned 20, the news media barely covered it, while I was in L.A. for TOS' 20th, and it was big news (along with a media event party & screening of the uncut version of The Cage, etc.).

The fact Trek required a recent reboot keeps the disasters of the Berman period alive in the minds of fans.

And let's remember that this is a TAS thread. If you want to argue about the Abrams movies, please do it in a thread that's actually about that subject.

Yes, that is true (and you were talking to someone else) but I thought something else needed to be said about ST perceptions.

[jefferiestubes8]

Christopher wrote:

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Not possible, since the music and sound effects were mixed on the same track. There are some Filmation DVDs that do have isolated music/SFX tracks for some episodes, but no isolatable music-only tracks exist.

Do you have a URL source for this that the Dialog, Music, Effects stems do not exist?

[BillJ]

Warped9 wrote:

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Quote: Robert Meyer Burnett - "...that new Star Trek movie was generic pablum that appealed to the masses."
Dead on. This was a cool interview and quite refreshing to hear from a Trek alumni rather than "it's Trek so it must be awesome."

Why does every thread have to turn into a Trek 09 pissing match?

I agree with Lokai of Cheron, day one purchase.

[ssosmcin]

Christopher wrote:

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Not possible, since the music and sound effects were mixed on the same track. There are some Filmation DVDs that do have isolated music/SFX tracks for some episodes, but no isolatable music-only tracks exist.

That's why it's crazy. Who knows if someone has a set of tapes somewhere with the music? Anything is possible. Not necessarily probable, but possible.

I don't for a minute believe it to be the case, mind you....

[Christopher]

TREK_GOD_1 wrote:

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If the original recordings no longer exist, I think a happy medium would be Varese-like re-scored tracks. I imagine the entire collection would not run more than 2 or 3 CDs worth of music, since some of the cues were created for other Filmation series, so that would not be featured on a TAS soundtrack.

Oh, if you used only the music written specifically for TAS, it wouldn't come anywhere near filling a whole CD. This YouTube compilation contains, I daresay, well over half of TAS's library music, and it runs only 15 minutes and change.

Personally, I'd rather have an overall "Music of Filmation" box set with Ellis & Prescott's scores to all their shows -- and the stuff from other composers too, like Levy & Saban's He-Man/She-Ra scores and Frank Becker's BraveStarr score.

Roddenberry's 11th hour rejection of TAS has much to do with certain negative perceptions of it, but in its day, the show was praised by once-skeptical fans, won an Emmy and was considered far and above typcial--if not all Saturday morning material. Some thought it was serious enough to air during prime time.

Yes, but there have always been those who rejected it as well. The opinions of Star Trek fans have never, ever, ever been monolithic. Each new incarnation of the franchise has had people who hated it with a passion and people who adored it with a passion, and plenty in between.

And with TAS, there's the added complication that even its status as legitimate Trek canon is unclear in many people's minds. Contrary to what you suggest, that was the case well before Roddenberry's '89 memo. Since TAS was only intermittently syndicated, plenty of fans never actually saw it until it came out on home video in the early '90s, or were only familiar with it through Alan Dean Foster's novelizations. Quite a few Trek tie-in novelists in the '80s disregarded or were simply unaware of TAS; for instance, A.C. Crispin's acclaimed novel Yesterday's Son, featuring the Guardian of Forever, shows no awareness of the events of "Yesteryear."

A while back, I was looking through old DC Trek comics from the early '80s, and I came upon an interesting letter-column discussion in which it was revealed that the comic's editor Bob Greenberger liked TAS and wanted to count it as "real" Star Trek, but the comic's writer at the time, Mike W. Barr, didn't care for it and preferred to disregard it. Which may be why Arex & M'Ress weren't added to the book until Len Wein became its writer (though it was Peter David's later work with them in the comic that most fans remember, so that he's often mistakenly credited with their addition). And this was years before the Roddenberry memo.

For such an expensive, niche / luxury format, it speaks to the notion that Paramount recognized the popularity of TAS as a vital part of the franchise, and felt it was a worthy, money-earning the effort--even on a format which at the time, was not serious competition to the videotape.

True, but the point is that it was never universally embraced by fans. Again, it's a mistake to assume fandom has a single consensus opinion of anything. Look at TNG again. Obviously it was a big enough hit in its first two seasons to become quite successful and spawn a whole generation of first-run syndicated TV drama/adventure shows. But for the first few years it was on, it was viciously blasted by TOS loyalists as a betrayal, as a corruption, as a misguided attempt to ride the coattails of something great, as Trek in name only and unworthy of the name. Many of the original cast members were publicly hostile toward it for years, partly because they saw it as a potential threat to their continued employment in Trek movies or felt that they should've been the stars of a revived TV series. There was intense negative feeling toward it from some quarters of fandom, but that didn't change the fact that it was hugely successful with audiences in general -- exactly as is the case with the Abramsverse today. There is no consensus among Trek fans and never will be.

But TAS is different because, although it captured critical acclaim in its day and was definitely better-remembered than a lot of its animated peers, the contingent of fans who had negative or dismissive attitudes toward it -- or had simply never seen it -- was always a much larger percentage of the fan base. TNG eventually won over all but the most extreme loyalists. ENT is at least somewhat more accepted now than it was a decade ago, or at least there are currently fewer people trying to claim it was an alternate universe. But to this day, it's hard to find a discussion of TAS that doesn't involve questions being raised about whether it even "counts" at all. As with any other Trek incarnation, there are those who embrace it and those who reject it -- but the ratio is different, with the latter category being consistently a larger percentage of the whole.

jefferiestubes8 wrote:

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Do you have a URL source for this that the Dialog, Music, Effects stems do not exist?

No, but my information comes direct from Andy Mangels, who's produced the majority of the Filmation DVD releases and is probably the leading Filmation expert/historian around today (he's recently coauthored a book about the studio with its founder Lou Scheimer, Creating the Filmation Generation). I've asked him about the survival of Filmation music and about the way it was used on the DVD sets, and he made it clear that there are no surviving "clean" recordings of the music -- at least, none that are known. I keep hoping that someday, the intact music masters from Filmation's shows will be unearthed in a Hollywood warehouse or someone's closet. But to the best of anyone's current knowledge, they no longer exist.

But I should be clear: the dialogue tracks are separate from the music/sound FX tracks. Most shows are mixed that way to make it easier to redub them for foreign markets. So with the right equipment, you can isolate the music/FX track from the voice track, and that's how that YouTube compilation linked above was created -- by piecing together segments of the cues that didn't have sound effects over them in order to reconstruct the complete cues.

[Danlav05]

FrontierTrek wrote:

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Hey all! A bit of exclusive news from our multi-part interview with Robert Meyer Burnett - plans are currently underway for a Blu-Ray release of Star Trek: The Animated Series. Rob also mentioned that he had a "crazy idea" for the release that, if he could pull it off, would be very interesting.

Also - Rob gave his verdict on the Remastered Star Trek: The Original Series Blu-Ray release.

Here's the relevant part of the interview: http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/01162...rburnett6.html

I admit I am surprised that The Animated Series is even a candidate for blu-ray release, but nevertheless it looks like the entire Star Trek saga is now bound for the format.

I wonder how they plan to do it, maybe rectify a few shots?

As for the 'crazy idea', i unashamedly mention Secret of Vulcan Fury once more, it would possibly be a great addition. Also, could they do something with 25th Anniversary/Judgement Rites? They'd be great to draw people in!

[Christopher]

Danlav05 wrote:

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I wonder how they plan to do it, maybe rectify a few shots?

I wouldn't mind if they cleaned up some of the scratches and dirt on the cels.

Also they should restore the original appearance of the Delta Triangle exterior shots in "The Time Trap." It's supposed to have a red background, but current home-video versions make it black.

[Kamdan]

They also changed the color of Thelin in Yesteryear.

[TREK_GOD_1]

I would appreciate some of Filmation's in-house or NBC promos for the series as extras.

[BillJ]

Crazy idea...

Redo a single episode with new voice actors and new animation as a test for a new animated series.

[Kail]

I worked with TPTB on the extras for the DVD release, I hope they ask me to help with the Blu-Ray.

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Kamdan wrote:

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They also changed the color of Thelin in Yesteryear.

How so?

[tmosler]

This is great news i am definitialy going to buy this.