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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old January 18 2013, 12:20 PM   #16
Fleet Captain
Location: Liverpool, UK
Re: Episode of the week: Conspiracy

Jeyl wrote: View Post
Remember, this is the same doctor who was willing to let a group of people die rather than get infected with a disease that doesn't kill you.
To which disease/episode are you referring?
One day soon, man is going to be able to harness incredible energies, energies that could ultimately hurl us to other worlds in... some sort of spaceship.
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Old January 18 2013, 12:53 PM   #17
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Location: Asheville, NC
Re: Episode of the week: Conspiracy

MikeS wrote: View Post
Jeyl wrote: View Post
Remember, this is the same doctor who was willing to let a group of people die rather than get infected with a disease that doesn't kill you.
To which disease/episode are you referring?
Why, the unnamed one from the infamous and totally not sexist episode Angel One.

CRUSHER: This virus is totally out of control here. Until I know exactly what I'm dealing with, I can't let anyone new be exposed.
RIKER: Doctor, these people are facing their deaths down here.
CRUSHER: They might be facing the same thing up here. Until I have a better idea of what I'm dealing with, no one can beam up. I'm sorry, Will, but you must wait.

Again, this virus has only shown to cause great discomfort and over time hasn't resulted in any deaths on a ship with a thousand people on it. This is literally the situation the crew is faced with when trying to save a group of people. Certain death, or possible death. Crusher is insisting on CERTAIN DEATH! What, does she have to do a mountain of paper work for every crew member who gets sick and doesn't want that work to stack on? That's the only reason why she's doing this after all. She doesn't want people to get sick period. What a lazy buffoon. And it's not like anyone who is sick gets any special high tech treatment either. When Captain Picard of all people gets the virus, this is how critical Crusher is to the Captain's health.

CRUSHER: You're infected with the virus. Captain. In my opinion, you are no longer physically able to effectively command this vessel.
PICARD: That is ridiculous, Doctor. I have an away team down there, in less than friendly territory, and in addition I have an appointment with several Romulan battlecruisers.
CRUSHER: You have an appointment in your cabin, Captain. With your bed.

Yep. A virus so scary that Crusher believes it is better to face certain death than to get infected, and her method of treating the Captain's health? Go to your room.

At least Doctor Pulaski was smart enough to contain infected people in a shuttle. Where are the shuttles here? Where are the quarantine containment areas? The bloody cargo area has transporters in it. Just transport them into there. Why is Crusher more of a danger to everyone than the freaking virus??

So it's no surprise that someone who used a phaser on a high stun setting which successfully subdued someone being controlled by a parasite would recommend the kill setting in dealing with anyone else being controlled by the parasite. I guess the paper work on a dead host is a lot less work than dealing with people who get sick.

Last edited by Jeyl; January 18 2013 at 02:35 PM.
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Old January 18 2013, 03:44 PM   #18
Re: Episode of the week: Conspiracy

Regarding the setting of the phasers in the final fight at SF HQ, we should note that it's something neither Crusher nor the one person told by Crusher to use "kill", Picard, would be in a position to choose.

The phasers used in the fight were taken from the possessed people. The one possessed person who retained use of his weapon, Admiral Aaron, fired at our heroes but missed; the beam created a bright flash but did no damage whatsoever to the wall it hit, or to the painting on that wall. It would appear the phaser was at most on one of the "heavy stun" settings, because "kill but don't vaporize" in the 24th century seems to leave scorch marks.

Riker in turn beamed down some time after Crusher had his discussion with Picard. Quite possibly, new information was uncovered, and Riker knew there was no need to use the kill setting to subdue the possessed people; heavy stun would do.

When the time comes to destroy the Remmick-shaped creature, it's Riker's gun that does physical damage; Picard's bigger sidearm, confiscated from the conference room , merely creates the sort of chest glow typically associated with stun. So we could well assume that Picard isn't touching the settings, while Riker has enough extra information to know when to key his personal phaser up or down.

Why Quinn goes on a rampage could have two basic explanations:

a) It's Quinn fighting, not the parasite. Quinn is ruining the plan by trading blows with Riker; the parasite is for some reason powerless to stop this, perhaps because Quinn has confused it into thinking that the fisticuffs would be a good idea, perhaps because Quinn has somehow gained the upper hand.

b) The idea is to both eliminate Riker and other top officers, and to lure in Crusher to treat them. Quinn's body is expendable; by beating up Riker, jamming his ability to call Security (an Admiral could do that easily enough, I trust), and instead sending a message that lures in Worf, LaForge and Crusher, the parasite eliminates a number of threats while taking over a "lucky survivor" who can subsequently ease other parasites aboard.

We do know that the possessed people aren't very convincing in their imitations (who would believe Remmick's words about peaceful coexistence when delivered like that?), while OTOH the parasites should know a lot about mankind and about what it would really take to manipulate our heroes. It would thus be possible to argue that the parasites have poor control of the host bodies, and it is for this reason that they generally fail to convince, and specifically fail to control Quinn during the fight.

On the other hand, if Quinn did triumph over the parasite, this means the critter apparently only managed to influence Quinn's face and speech, but couldn't control his limbs. Odd for it to go that way... And why would the parasite bother to invent rationales for Quinn's undesirable behavior ("I enjoy beating you up!")?

Assuming that everything did go according to plan is fairly easy. The Quinn creature had eliminated Riker and LaForge as threats, and was going to accomplish that with Worf as well in pretty short order. Then it would be time for Crusher to arrive, be subdued, and for the parasite to be injected (we don't know how that happens, but supposedly it's fairly complicated and best accomplished by luring the victim into a locked room and subduing her conventionally - fist in the jaw, phaser on stun).

The parasite side of things makes sense, then. What does not make sense is that Worf and LaForge arrive "unawares", walking right into the trap - but Crusher comes in armed, something she basically never does otherwise. Being unprepared for such a startling twist of events does not make the parasites look stupid. It does make one wonder what sort of a message Quinn sent out that was going to lure the victims in unalert but running, and the doctor in unarmed and unawares...

Regarding the "Angel One" issue, an unknown disease is not that big a problem if the idea is to beam up the Odin folks. It only becomes a problem if there is going to be any beaming down going on; in that case, an entire planet might die.

However, it doesn't seem as if Crusher would have a reason to think that the deaths on the planet are particularly imminent. Indeed, hurry would not be a factor: Mistress Beata is only going to execute the Odin crew if they refuse to leave. Them being unable to leave for the next few days because of a force majeure would not be a problem for Beata.

Crusher doesn't condemn anybody to death. And Beata only does so after Ramsay declares he wants to be executed rather than deported.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old January 18 2013, 07:41 PM   #19
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Location: Asheville, NC
Re: Episode of the week: Conspiracy

Timo wrote: View Post
However, it doesn't seem as if Crusher would have a reason to think that the deaths on the planet are particularly imminent.
Because any good doctor would assume that anyone "facing their deaths" can surely wait on them. It's almost as if the virus was some last minute attempt by the writer to create more tension in a story that didn't need any. It's not like the whole series, let alone this episode hinged on whether or not these two dopey looking buggers would be executed or not.
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Old January 18 2013, 09:36 PM   #20
Re: Episode of the week: Conspiracy

any good doctor would assume
Actually, it seems that our good doctors do relatively little assuming and quite a bit of eavesdropping. Granted, it is only in a couple of early episodes that Picard explicitly calls the CMO and ascertains that she has indeed been listening in and is aware of the situation, but this is only for the benefit of visiting villains who might not know of this standard Starfleet practice...

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Old January 20 2013, 12:24 AM   #21
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Re: Episode of the week: Conspiracy

Captrek wrote: View Post
Use of Time wrote: View Post
I really wish there would have been a follow up episode to this. It was such a cool ending to the episode to with that shot of space and the transmitting sound.
Yes, it feels like it should have had a sequel. Let's throw some story ideas around.
The Bugs can’t threaten the Federation again in the same way they threatened it in Conspiracy. Now that everybody knows to be on the lookout for people with blue gills on their napes and no personal memories, they won’t be able to infiltrate again as easily as they did in Conspiracy. It will therefore take some creativity to come up with a premise for a sequel.

Here’s one idea:
The Bugs have an enemy whom I’ll call The Enemy. They have the knowledge and the smarts to defeat The Enemy, but they don’t have the necessary “brawn.” The Federation has the brawn, but not the knowledge and smarts. The Bugs make a plan:

We’ll infiltrate and take over Starfleet. We’ll trick The Enemy into invading the Federation and attacking Earth. They won’t know we’re there and in control, so they’ll think they have easy pickings. When they come we’ll destroy them.

Everything is going according to plan until Picard, Riker and Doctor Crusher put an end to the infiltration. Unfortunately for the Federation, the trap—the mysterious transmission sent by Remmick—has already been set and The Enemy is coming.

The Federation’s only hope is to seek out the Bugs and ally with them against The Enemy. Like Eisenhower in WWII, the Bugs say they cannot defeat The Enemy unless they have complete, unfettered, direct command over the fleet. Unlike the Western Allies and Eisenhower, the Federation doesn’t trust the Bugs and fears that putting the bulk of Starfleet under their command may result in a threat as dire as The Enemy …
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Old January 21 2013, 12:34 PM   #22
Location: New York
Re: Episode of the week: Conspiracy

Was there ever a follow up in any of the Star Trek books?
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Old January 21 2013, 12:38 PM   #23
USS Firefly
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Re: Episode of the week: Conspiracy

Yes in the mission gamma books they're back
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