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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old December 11 2013, 07:36 PM   #196
Warped9
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Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
RAMA wrote: View Post
There's a DE for STII on bluray.
Where?
Warped9 wrote: View Post
I don't htink there is. If the TMP DE and/or TWOK DE made it to Blu-Ray it would likely be promoted and widely known.
There is no Blu-ray release of any Star Trek movie other than the theatrical versions.
Yeah, I was pretty sure because it's something I watch out for. Whenever I've seen mention of the DE's it's only in reference to them being on DVD.
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Old December 11 2013, 07:40 PM   #197
OneBuckFilms
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Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

TNG Blu-Rays are being handled by CBS and CBS Digital, and not Paramount. Paramount has no steak in the TV side of Star Trek.

The Blu-Ray releases were only ever done for the theatrical releases of the movies, and only TWOK really got a full restoration.

Extra features were added, and the features from the DVDs were ported as we all know, but that's really about it.

Paramount's interest in Star Trek financially is probably more geared towards the JJ Abrams movies with Bad Robot, possibly more than the first 10 features. It is not the big moneymaker for Paramount it was when they had the TV shows, even though the movies are available for a descent price in stores and sell relatively well.
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Old December 11 2013, 08:24 PM   #198
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Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

Yep no steak at all---not even a pork chop.
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Old December 12 2013, 07:01 AM   #199
Oso Blanco
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Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
RAMA wrote: View Post
There's a DE for STII on bluray.
Where?
Warped9 wrote: View Post
I don't htink there is. If the TMP DE and/or TWOK DE made it to Blu-Ray it would likely be promoted and widely known.
There is no Blu-ray release of any Star Trek movie other than the theatrical versions.
That's the point I was trying to make ...
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Old December 12 2013, 01:43 PM   #200
LOKAI of CHERON
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Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
Oso Blanco wrote: View Post

Where?
Warped9 wrote: View Post
I don't htink there is. If the TMP DE and/or TWOK DE made it to Blu-Ray it would likely be promoted and widely known.
There is no Blu-ray release of any Star Trek movie other than the theatrical versions.
That's the point I was trying to make ...
I know!!!
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Old December 12 2013, 04:09 PM   #201
RAMA
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Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

Warped9 wrote: View Post
LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
Oso Blanco wrote: View Post

Where?
Warped9 wrote: View Post
I don't htink there is. If the TMP DE and/or TWOK DE made it to Blu-Ray it would likely be promoted and widely known.
There is no Blu-ray release of any Star Trek movie other than the theatrical versions.
Yeah, I was pretty sure because it's something I watch out for. Whenever I've seen mention of the DE's it's only in reference to them being on DVD.
OK so I checked, I HAVE the STII DE but it's a DVD. The bluray version is called "remastered" in several locations so I assumed it was the DE. I own NO original movies on bluray, only the JJ movies.

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Old December 12 2013, 05:11 PM   #202
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Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

More reason for folks to get the nomenclature straight, and have remastered mean just that, not serve as a catchall for 'having fucked with.'
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Old December 12 2013, 07:02 PM   #203
LOKAI of CHERON
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Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

Just a side note, but there is some controversy reference the altered colour timing on the TWOK Blu-ray - which is noticeably different to all previous home video editions. While it's fair to say many took umbrage with the results, I must admit, I actually quite like it!

Who's to say what's right or wrong, but I do suspect the original theatrical presentation was probably more akin to the standard definition releases on the market.

But, since I was 13 last time I saw the movie on the silver screen in '82, I can't say that with absolute assurance!
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Old December 12 2013, 07:08 PM   #204
Harvey
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Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

I've said this before, but I wouldn't mind the color timing of TWOK in HD release if it were consistent. The problem is that Regulus is blue in most shots of this new transfer -- but there are a few where it's still red.
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Old December 13 2013, 01:59 AM   #205
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Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

The thing about Director's Editions is, where does it stop? Which version is the 'right' one? Does a theatrical cut trump a Director's Edition because it is what was originally theatrically distributed? Or does a Director's Edition trump a theatrical cut, because it is nominally "closer to a film-maker's original vision"? What about cases where scenes were cut out of the theatrical cut of something for a very good reason, and their inclusion in a subsequent Director's Edition actually arguably makes things worse?

Sure, some Director's Cuts, including the TMP and TWOK ones, are broadly the same movie but just with alternative takes inserted here and there. They aren't 'canon busting' Director's Cuts. But then you've got DE's that have alternate endings and other major storyline changes, which confuse things somewhat. I've never been sure what's the official ending of Blade Runner. I've never been sure what's the true ending of Army Of Darkness. The Director's Cuts muddy the water to the extent that you can't necessarily say one way or the other which is the 'right' one, and to me that feels wrong somehow y'know? I tend to err on the side of the theatrical cuts because I think for better or worse they are the originals as released to the public and the Director's Editions can only ever be intriguing alternatives, but then you'll go online and many people will hold the opposite view, that the Director's Edition ending is somehow the more pure and untainted one.

(Actually, TWOK does make one major change: in one cut of the movie Peter Preston is seemingly just another eager young cadet, while in the Director's Cut he's identified as Scotty's nephew. A small change, but a significant one in canon terms. Which one is correct? )

If they did a Director's Edition of "Generations" which reinstated Kirk being shot in the back instead of a bridge falling on him, which death becomes canon? If they did a Director's Edition of "Nemesis" with the original ending of Picard getting a new Number One, Crusher going off to Starfleet medical, etc, which obviously invalidates a great number of the original novels that have been written since (which all tend to use the theatrical edition ending as a jumping off point), then do we accept the Director's Edition as the new 'true' ending of the movie? Or do we just go "Hey, it's kind of cool to see it, but it isn't canon"?

Sorry for the length of this one, but it's a topic which I've always struggled with.
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Old December 13 2013, 02:50 AM   #206
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Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

Lance wrote: View Post
The thing about Director's Editions is, where does it stop? Which version is the 'right' one? Does a theatrical cut trump a Director's Edition because it is what was originally theatrically distributed? Or does a Director's Edition trump a theatrical cut, because it is nominally "closer to a film-maker's original vision"?
What does it matter? If it conflicts with what a later writer/director/producer wants to do, it'll just be ignored.
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Old December 13 2013, 05:01 AM   #207
Warped9
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Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

Lance wrote: View Post
The thing about Director's Editions is, where does it stop? Which version is the 'right' one? Does a theatrical cut trump a Director's Edition because it is what was originally theatrically distributed? Or does a Director's Edition trump a theatrical cut, because it is nominally "closer to a film-maker's original vision"? What about cases where scenes were cut out of the theatrical cut of something for a very good reason, and their inclusion in a subsequent Director's Edition actually arguably makes things worse?

Sure, some Director's Cuts, including the TMP and TWOK ones, are broadly the same movie but just with alternative takes inserted here and there. They aren't 'canon busting' Director's Cuts. But then you've got DE's that have alternate endings and other major storyline changes, which confuse things somewhat. I've never been sure what's the official ending of Blade Runner. I've never been sure what's the true ending of Army Of Darkness. The Director's Cuts muddy the water to the extent that you can't necessarily say one way or the other which is the 'right' one, and to me that feels wrong somehow y'know? I tend to err on the side of the theatrical cuts because I think for better or worse they are the originals as released to the public and the Director's Editions can only ever be intriguing alternatives, but then you'll go online and many people will hold the opposite view, that the Director's Edition ending is somehow the more pure and untainted one.

(Actually, TWOK does make one major change: in one cut of the movie Peter Preston is seemingly just another eager young cadet, while in the Director's Cut he's identified as Scotty's nephew. A small change, but a significant one in canon terms. Which one is correct? )

If they did a Director's Edition of "Generations" which reinstated Kirk being shot in the back instead of a bridge falling on him, which death becomes canon? If they did a Director's Edition of "Nemesis" with the original ending of Picard getting a new Number One, Crusher going off to Starfleet medical, etc, which obviously invalidates a great number of the original novels that have been written since (which all tend to use the theatrical edition ending as a jumping off point), then do we accept the Director's Edition as the new 'true' ending of the movie? Or do we just go "Hey, it's kind of cool to see it, but it isn't canon"?

Sorry for the length of this one, but it's a topic which I've always struggled with.
It's a fair question.

I can only say that I tend to lean toward the version that works best for me overall.

- I think the ST: TMP DE is much more watchable than the theatrical or TV Special Extended Version.
- I think the Daredevil DE is light years better than the theatrical version.
- I prefer the extended version of Peter Jackson's King Kong. I think it's better edited even with some additional footage put back in.
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Old December 13 2013, 03:54 PM   #208
Oso Blanco
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Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

Lance wrote: View Post
Actually, TWOK does make one major change: in one cut of the movie Peter Preston is seemingly just another eager young cadet, while in the Director's Cut he's identified as Scotty's nephew. A small change, but a significant one in canon terms. Which one is correct?
I don't see a problem there, since the two versions don't contradict each other at all.

It's not as if in the theatrical cut they said that Peter Preston was NOT Sotty's nephew. They just don't specifically mention that he is. But the fact that his death had such a huge impact on Scotty implied some kind of relationship between the two of them. The DE only confirmed what we suspected by adding a little background information.
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Old December 13 2013, 04:02 PM   #209
Warped9
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Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

I think this is a key point. If a Director's Edition or Director's Cut doesn't really contradict the theatrical version, but merely adds content or re-edits (yes, it can be subjective) the overall film then it's not an inconsistency. It's somewhat akin to reading a novelization of a film that contains content not seen in the filmed version of the story. Sometimes a novelization can clarify things that are perhaps ambivalent or vague in the film. Of course on the hand some novelizations had reams of things with little real relevance to the film. I'm thinking of the novelizations like that for TSFS (as well as other Trek films) that fleshed out things barely (if at all) suggested in the film.
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Old December 13 2013, 04:15 PM   #210
RAMA
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Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

Lance wrote: View Post
The thing about Director's Editions is, where does it stop? Which version is the 'right' one? Does a theatrical cut trump a Director's Edition because it is what was originally theatrically distributed? Or does a Director's Edition trump a theatrical cut, because it is nominally "closer to a film-maker's original vision"? What about cases where scenes were cut out of the theatrical cut of something for a very good reason, and their inclusion in a subsequent Director's Edition actually arguably makes things worse?

Sure, some Director's Cuts, including the TMP and TWOK ones, are broadly the same movie but just with alternative takes inserted here and there. They aren't 'canon busting' Director's Cuts. But then you've got DE's that have alternate endings and other major storyline changes, which confuse things somewhat. I've never been sure what's the official ending of Blade Runner. I've never been sure what's the true ending of Army Of Darkness. The Director's Cuts muddy the water to the extent that you can't necessarily say one way or the other which is the 'right' one, and to me that feels wrong somehow y'know? I tend to err on the side of the theatrical cuts because I think for better or worse they are the originals as released to the public and the Director's Editions can only ever be intriguing alternatives, but then you'll go online and many people will hold the opposite view, that the Director's Edition ending is somehow the more pure and untainted one.

(Actually, TWOK does make one major change: in one cut of the movie Peter Preston is seemingly just another eager young cadet, while in the Director's Cut he's identified as Scotty's nephew. A small change, but a significant one in canon terms. Which one is correct? )

If they did a Director's Edition of "Generations" which reinstated Kirk being shot in the back instead of a bridge falling on him, which death becomes canon? If they did a Director's Edition of "Nemesis" with the original ending of Picard getting a new Number One, Crusher going off to Starfleet medical, etc, which obviously invalidates a great number of the original novels that have been written since (which all tend to use the theatrical edition ending as a jumping off point), then do we accept the Director's Edition as the new 'true' ending of the movie? Or do we just go "Hey, it's kind of cool to see it, but it isn't canon"?

Sorry for the length of this one, but it's a topic which I've always struggled with.
Well don't wait for someone to tell you which one is "official", they're ALL official, just pick the one you like best.

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