RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,070
Posts: 5,432,286
Members: 24,926
Currently online: 489
Newest member: wod_freak

TrekToday headlines

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Yelchin In New Indie Thriller
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Saldana In The Book of Life
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Cracked’s New Sci-Fi Satire
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16

Beltran Introduces Shakespeare To Theater Group
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16

Burton To Be Honored at Facets Boo! Bash
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 5 2013, 09:47 PM   #136
Grant
Fleet Captain
 
Grant's Avatar
 
Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

Admiral Bear wrote: View Post
I have a simple wish. I don't particularly care about having the DE version on Blu-ray, although it's a tighter film. I just want the theatrical cut, currently on Blu-ray, to be cleaned up and reissued. The print Paramount used for the BR was appalling.
Yes, let's have a better version of the only 1 of 3 versions currently on Blu-ray. That would be the perfect solution.
Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 5 2013, 09:59 PM   #137
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

Grant wrote: View Post
Admiral Bear wrote: View Post
I have a simple wish. I don't particularly care about having the DE version on Blu-ray, although it's a tighter film. I just want the theatrical cut, currently on Blu-ray, to be cleaned up and reissued. The print Paramount used for the BR was appalling.
Yes, let's have a better version of the only 1 of 3 versions currently on Blu-ray. That would be the perfect solution.
While I'd love to have a three-film, seamless branching uber-edition, I don't see it ever, ever happening. TMP is just too much of a niche film now. Paramount would never make back the money they spent to produce it.

So I'm happy enough having the theatrical cut on Blu-ray and the Director's Edition on DVD.
__________________
"If I hadn't tried, the cost would have been my soul." - Admiral James T. Kirk, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 5 2013, 10:06 PM   #138
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

Maurice wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Yes, but I'm pretty sure that's not what they deliberately intended, thus fixing it would be a welcome correction (same applies for the crappy transporter effect) and not a revision.

OTOH I would consider putting Earth back into the picture to be such revision. The drydock could be differently aligned with Earth, it could have been a deliberate decision not to withdraw the audience's attention from the Enterprise or else.
You're okay the Earth disappearing because it's possibly a deliberate decision.
Earth doesn't "disappear", it's just not visible during this shot of Enterprise's departure.
Unless we hear otherwise, yes, it's probably a deliberate decision.

If you want to select a shot where Earth would have to be visible but isn't in the film, I suggest you try this one: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/a.../tmphd0370.jpg

Maurice wrote: View Post
You're for replacing the transporter effect, which was a deliberate decision, just because you don't like it.

That's a self-contradictory position.
No, it's a thing called common sense.

Obviously both the VFX screwup in the departure scene and the misaligned transporter effect were results of not having enough time or tools in post-production to get it right.

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 5 2013, 10:07 PM   #139
Grant
Fleet Captain
 
Grant's Avatar
 
Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

BillJ wrote: View Post
Grant wrote: View Post
Admiral Bear wrote: View Post
I have a simple wish. I don't particularly care about having the DE version on Blu-ray, although it's a tighter film. I just want the theatrical cut, currently on Blu-ray, to be cleaned up and reissued. The print Paramount used for the BR was appalling.
Yes, let's have a better version of the only 1 of 3 versions currently on Blu-ray. That would be the perfect solution.
While I'd love to have a three-film, seamless branching uber-edition, I don't see it ever, ever happening. TMP is just too much of a niche film now. Paramount would never make back the money they spent to produce it.

So I'm happy enough having the theatrical cut on Blu-ray and the Director's Edition on DVD.
I agree. We have one slight chance to get the other versions on Blu-ray-----2016, if it doesn't happen then we just all better be happy with what we already have.
Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 5 2013, 10:14 PM   #140
Indysolo
Fleet Captain
 
Indysolo's Avatar
 
Location: Sunny California
Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Leto_II wrote: View Post
CBS is only doing the remastering work for the various Trek television series; Paramount Home Video has the rights to the feature films and their remastering (or, in this case, their lack thereof).
The films are in need of a remastering. First I thought it's okay to leave them as they are, but then I noticed this VFX screwup.

(Don't look too hard if you want the illusion to stay real, especially not at the actual footage).

Admittedly, I had never noticed it previously, but it cries to be corrected.

Bob
The support arm is removed in "The Director's Edition".
__________________
"Garret Wang's costume was so 'West Hollywood', I offered to be best man at his wedding."
-Walter Koenig on Garret Wang's Of Gods and Men costume
Indysolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 5 2013, 10:52 PM   #141
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
View Maurice's Twitter Profile
Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
You're okay the Earth disappearing because it's possibly a deliberate decision.
Earth doesn't "disappear", it's just not visible during this shot of Enterprise's departure.
Unless we hear otherwise, yes, it's probably a deliberate decision.

If you want to select a shot where Earth would have to be visible but isn't in the film, I suggest you try this one: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/a.../tmphd0370.jpg
That it disappears and reappears is the point. It's as much a "mistake" as the other things people cite as things which supposedly should be fixed.


Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
You're for replacing the transporter effect, which was a deliberate decision, just because you don't like it.

That's a self-contradictory position.
...Obviously both the VFX screwup in the departure scene and the misaligned transporter effect were results of not having enough time or tools in post-production to get it right.
You wrote, "same applies for the crappy transporter effect" which scans as that it was the effect itself that was at issue, not the compositing. If you meant the latter you should have said so.
__________________
* * *
"The road to hell is paved with works-in-progress."
—Philip Roth
Maurice is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 6 2013, 12:40 AM   #142
trevanian
Rear Admiral
 
Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

Well, the sparkles look pretty tacky to me & always have, though the actual tube of laserscan was pretty nice, if misaligned. I've always been most bothered by the way the effect doesn't seem to ever fade out (when Kirk beams up to the office complex and when McCoy comes aboard), since they do a cutaway each time and fade the sound out and then you kind of abruptly jump back to the guy on the platform with no effects ... it feels very awkward, and the only reason I can think of for it is they didn't want the dupe quality dropoff to appear during a single shot (like the way some films get very grainy when a wipe or dissolve takes place.)
trevanian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 6 2013, 01:16 AM   #143
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
View Maurice's Twitter Profile
Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

I'm not saying the effect is the best choice, but it's the choice they made.
__________________
* * *
"The road to hell is paved with works-in-progress."
—Philip Roth
Maurice is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 6 2013, 03:16 AM   #144
George Steinbrenner
Fleet Admiral
 
George Steinbrenner's Avatar
 
Location: Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
View George Steinbrenner's Twitter Profile
Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

Maurice wrote: View Post
Rķu rķu, chķu wrote: View Post
^ But at the same time, mistakes that CAN be fixed, should be, when there's an opportunity to do so.
Why?
Because errors should always be fixed.

For example: The bit in TNG's "Darmok" which (originally) showed a phaser shot coming from the torpedo bays, has been fixed in the remastered version of that same episode - the shot now comes from the phaser strip, as it should. Now tell me, why shouldn't they have fixed that? Obvious goofs are not art, they are errors, and all errors must be fixed.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
George Steinbrenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 6 2013, 05:39 AM   #145
Hober Mallow
Commodore
 
Location: The planet Terminus, site of the Encyclopedia Foundation on the periphery of the galaxy
Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

Rķu rķu, chķu wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
Rķu rķu, chķu wrote: View Post
^ But at the same time, mistakes that CAN be fixed, should be, when there's an opportunity to do so.
Why?
Obvious goofs are not art, they are errors, and all errors must be fixed.
No, there's no real reason mistakes "must" be fixed.
__________________
"Beep... beep!" --Captain Pike
Hober Mallow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 6 2013, 06:33 AM   #146
George Steinbrenner
Fleet Admiral
 
George Steinbrenner's Avatar
 
Location: Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
View George Steinbrenner's Twitter Profile
Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

^ Yes, there is.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
George Steinbrenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 6 2013, 07:23 AM   #147
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
View Maurice's Twitter Profile
Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

Rķu rķu, chķu wrote: View Post
^ Yes, there is.
Nomad? Is that you?
__________________
* * *
"The road to hell is paved with works-in-progress."
—Philip Roth
Maurice is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 6 2013, 07:42 AM   #148
Lance
Commodore
 
Lance's Avatar
 
Location: The Enterprise's Restroom
Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

There's a case to be made for both points of view.

Personally, I disagree with the statement that they **must** be fixed, because for me those mistakes are an important part of the tapestry.

George Lucas has made an art form of 'correcting' things he perceives as being mistakes in the Star Wars movies, but he's also a good example of why making those changes isn't always beneficial. It robs the original work of some of it's... um, originality.

When you watch a 'fixed' version of a movie, it has ceased to be the movie that it once was. And for future generations, the original movie ceases to exist, as the "Director's Edition" becomes the canon source that outgrades all others.

I find that view disconcerting. To me, TMP is what it is, a production from 1979 which has it's flaws and has it's plus points too. "The Director's Edition" can only ever be a secondary source, essentially an interesting curio which, nevertheless, does NOT replace the 1979 release... it compliments it.

And that's how Director's Cuts should be. In my opinion.
Lance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 6 2013, 07:55 AM   #149
George Steinbrenner
Fleet Admiral
 
George Steinbrenner's Avatar
 
Location: Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
View George Steinbrenner's Twitter Profile
Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

Lance wrote: View Post

Personally, I disagree with the statement that they **must** be fixed, because for me those mistakes are an important part of the tapestry.

George Lucas has made an art form of 'correcting' things he perceives as being mistakes in the Star Wars movies, but he's also a good example of why making those changes isn't always beneficial. It robs the original work of some of it's... um, originality.
I don't care, here, about what Lucas *thinks* are mistakes. I'm talking about those things that really ARE mistakes. Objectively speaking.

For instance, that thing in "Darmok" about the phaser beam coming from the torpedo tubes. No one disputes that this is an obvious error. So tell me, WHY shouldn't that be fixed?

Lance wrote: View Post
When you watch a 'fixed' version of a movie, it has ceased to be the movie that it once was. And for future generations, the original movie ceases to exist, as the "Director's Edition" becomes the canon source that outgrades all others.
Well, yeah, that's kind of the point.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
George Steinbrenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 6 2013, 08:31 AM   #150
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
View Maurice's Twitter Profile
Re: TMP on Blu-Ray

The trouble is distinguishing what's a genuine technical mistake (e.g. one real bone fide mistake in TMP is that the matte for the Klingon aft-torpedo is one frame out of sync with the torpedo element), what's something they decided they had to live with (the silhouette of the mount crossing the drydock), what's a design decision (was omitting the Earth from many of the Drydock shots a compositional decision or a "we don't have time to do it right" decision?) and flat out revisionism (all of the DE San Francisco VFX shots), and who gets to make that determination?
__________________
* * *
"The road to hell is paved with works-in-progress."
—Philip Roth
Maurice is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:41 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.