My "Just Saw Insurrection For the First Time" Review.

[CorporalClegg]

BillJ wrote:

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The only thing the movie alludes to is that the relocation was being reviewed not halted.

If six hundred people are sitting on a cure for cancer, I'd move them in a heartbeat.

I find sanctimoniously pointing fingers at Phlox and then turning around and condoning kidnapping to be extremely hypocritical, if not a bit disingenuous.

[T'Girl]

JediKnightButler wrote:

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I just didn't think that it lived up to its title as the Admiral was clearly in the wrong and, apparently he wasn't entirely operating with full sanction and was easily overridden by the Fed Council...

Interesting view, my take from the movie was that the Admiral was acting under direct orders from the Federation Council.

[BillJ]

CorporalClegg wrote:

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I find sanctimoniously pointing fingers at Phlox and then turning around and condoning kidnapping to be extremely hypocritical, if not a bit disingenuous.

Its entirely consistent though. I believe in intervention in both cases. One, that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Two, that the physical evidence that the Valakians need to die for the Menk to evolve simply doesn't exist in the episode itself.

I believe in actually examining the facts of each case and not clouding my reasoning with religious dogma. YMMV.

[sonak]

BillJ wrote:

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Its entirely consistent though. I believe in intervention in both cases. One, that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Two, that the physical evidence that the Valakians need to die for the Menk to evolve simply doesn't exist in the episode itself.

I believe in actually examining the facts of each case and not clouding my reasoning with religious dogma. YMMV.

I was going to respond, considering my views are the same as BillJ's on both questions, but then this post put it well, so why bother?

At any rate, it just seems pretty arbitrary to compare those two scenarios since they're nothing alike. One is a "property rights of a few vs. the well-being of many" scenario and the other is a "mad doctor uses pseudoscience to justify letting millions die" scenario.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

BillJ wrote:

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I stand corrected. It is on the Blu-ray version as well, I've never actually pulled the case out of the slip cover before now.

I don't have the Blu-Ray. But even the special edition DVD didn't have any audio commentaries

[BillJ]

Finally broke out the Blu-ray of Insurrection. Might have been a stronger movie if they had left a couple of these scenes in, maybe not stronger but more likable.

[BillJ]

Still trying to figure out why everyone thinks the Frakes/Sirtis commentary is so great. Sirtis sounds like she's on painkillers. Though she explains the Ba'ku being white as they're all of Swedish descent.

Sad that after all these years my favorites part is still the Gilbert & Sullivan scenes.

[BillJ]

Frakes compares the Ba'ku children to Iraqis living under Saddam's rule. Don't think he likes the film very much.

[JediKnightButler]

I thought that INS actually was fairly decent. A letdown after the superb FC but it ended up appearing MUCH better in retrospect than NEM, the movie that it preceded. I could buy INS as a *real* TNG story, albeit a weak one IMHO. NEM was..........something else.

[JediKnightButler]

T'Girl wrote:

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Interesting view, my take from the movie was that the Admiral was acting under direct orders from the Federation Council.

Yeah, he might well have been acting with the authority of the Federation Council but it seemed awfully easy for Riker, et. al to change their minds when they discovered the truth of the situation. It makes me wonder whether or not the Federation Council actually knew everything about the operation and/or would have approved of it if they knew everything that Picard, et. al discovered.

[JarodRussell]

JediKnightButler wrote:

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Yeah, he might well have been acting with the authority of the Federation Council but it seemed awfully easy for Riker, et. al to change their minds when they discovered the truth of the situation. It makes me wonder whether or not the Federation Council actually knew everything about the operation and/or would have approved of it if they knew everything that Picard, et. al discovered.

They didn't, that was pretty clear in the film. Picard uncovered an illegal operation of a rogue Starfleet Admiral. Which is why they tried to kill Data when he discovered the holoship, didn't want Picard and the Enterprise to be involved in the first place, and then tried to destroy the Enterprise when they tried to contact the Council.

[Infern0]

Insurrection was VERY average. Not "bad" by any stretch of the imagination, but it felt more like a TV movie than a feature film.

[Hartzilla2007]

JarodRussell wrote:

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They didn't, that was pretty clear in the film. Picard uncovered an illegal operation of a rogue Starfleet Admiral. Which is why they tried to kill Data when he discovered the holoship, didn't want Picard and the Enterprise to be involved in the first place, and then tried to destroy the Enterprise when they tried to contact the Council.

Of course if the council did know it kind of makes the federation the biggest organization of douches ever if you consider that they apparently think moving a population off a dying planet to a new one is wrong and have to be coerced into doing so, but moving them to another planet to get resources they want is perfectly acceptable.

[T'Girl]

Hartzilla2007 wrote:

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... but moving them to another planet to get resources they want is perfectly acceptable

"Them" being a adorable little band of six hundred non-indigenous settlers.

And how are the Council members douches for look after the greater Federation population's medical needs? Not providing this medical advance from one of their own planets, as widely as possible, could be seen as a act of incompetence.

JediKnightButler wrote:

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It makes me wonder whether or not the Federation Council actually knew everything about the operation and/or would have approved of it if they knew everything that Picard, et. al discovered.

If that were the case, why would the Council order a review, as opposed to a out and out cancellation?

Years before, in Journey's End, Admiral Necheyev also requested a review of a Council decision to move people off of a planet. The Council ultimately confirmed their original decision.

[Hartzilla2007]

T'Girl wrote:

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And how are the Council members douches for look after the greater Federation population's medical needs? Not providing this medical advance from one of their own planets, as widely as possible, could be seen as a act of incompetence.

Because while their willing to move the Ba'ku to get at the rings if they didn't have something the federation wanted and their planet was becoming uninhabitable the federation would give some bullshit speech about not being able to save them becuase of potential contamination like thats worse than death and then leave them to die.

It's kind of dickish to only use your discreet population moving ship only if you get something out of it.