Thoughts on "Descent"

Melakon · January 5 2013, 06:23 PM

I just watched "Descent 1 & 2" for the first time in over ten years. At first there were a few nitpicky things I noticed, like why are the episode's cast and director credits in the teaser before the main title, instead of after?

Then, Data asks Geordi to help him override holodeck safety protocols to perform what is essentially a live-fire training exercise, but LaForge refuses. Are two officers also required to disable protocols for simple athletic or sports exercises?

When the Borg invade the bridge, it sure is lucky for us that Riker is only briefly stunned instead of seriously injured or killed in the aggressive firefight.

But in Part 2, I stopped making notes as I got drawn into Brent Spiner's performance. There's a third character he's playing that we never notice. It's the Conflicted Data, halfway between the extremes of Data and Lore, and there are behavioral traits from both in him. Spiner manages to keep all three versions distinct.

jimbotron · January 5 2013, 07:28 PM

Melakon wrote:

I just watched "Descent 1 & 2" for the first time in over ten years. At first there were a few nitpicky things I noticed, like why are the episode's cast and director credits in the teaser before the main title, instead of after?

They had the credits in the teaser because they did not want credits rolling in the middle of a firefight, which is what happened just after the titles.

Mojochi · January 6 2013, 11:55 PM

Melakon wrote:

Then, Data asks Geordi to help him override holodeck safety protocols to perform what is essentially a live-fire training exercise, but LaForge refuses.

I think My favorite thing about Data is that only two episodes after this story is resolved, Geordi places Data in the exact same position, during "Interface", by wanting to endanger himself with his link to the probe

Data objects, but ultimately supports Geordi. Geordi should think back on how he wouldn't help Data in Descent, & feel like crap

WillsBabe · January 7 2013, 06:49 PM

I read an awesome fanfic years back, the title of which I can't recall, alas, set many years after these eps, in which Lore had been sucessful. It was essentially about how a band of beleagured humans send one of their number back to stop Data and Lore getting together.

T'Girl · January 7 2013, 08:51 PM

Mojochi wrote:

Data objects, but ultimately supports Geordi. Geordi should think back on how he wouldn't help Data in Descent

Georgi has feelings for Data, truthfully Data has none for Geordi.

Anwar · January 7 2013, 09:07 PM

I'm kind of surprised the renegade Borg didn't have personal shields anymore. But then again, they had built-in weapons the normal Borg don't have. Their costumes were also different for easier movement compared to the usual Borg outfit.

MikeS · January 8 2013, 09:46 PM

WillsBabe wrote:

I read an awesome fanfic years back, the title of which I can't recall, alas, set many years after these eps, in which Lore had been sucessful. It was essentially about how a band of beleagured humans send one of their number back to stop Data and Lore getting together.

The Terminator?

jimbotron · January 8 2013, 10:35 PM

I did like that they brought back James Horan to once again be a naysayer about the metaphasic shields.

Mott the barber · January 9 2013, 06:47 PM

It's been years since I've seen these so at this point I think I'll wait for the remastered versions. They were good, but not great, Borg episodes.

I like when they deactivated Lore for the last time...kind of emotional even though he was a horrible "person."

WillsBabe · January 9 2013, 09:13 PM

MikeS wrote:

WillsBabe wrote:

I read an awesome fanfic years back, the title of which I can't recall, alas, set many years after these eps, in which Lore had been sucessful. It was essentially about how a band of beleagured humans send one of their number back to stop Data and Lore getting together.

The Terminator?

Now you mention it, it does sound like the plot of The Terminator.

I recall now it was called In the Shadow of the Sun.

Captain McBain · January 22 2013, 04:26 AM

I never understood that holodeck scene. Data tells Geordi that since the holodeck safeties are on, "I know my life is not in danger," or words to that effect. But Geordi still refuses to help him, as though Data could be injured or destroyed. So which is it? I thought that when holodeck safeties were on, you couldn't be injured.

Melakon · January 22 2013, 05:38 AM

Data wanted to disable the safety protocols, which required consent of two officers. Maybe Geordi just thought Data was nuts trying to summon up the emotional experience again by repeatedly "killing" Borg proxies.

JeffJedi · January 22 2013, 05:56 AM

I just want to know what happened to Lore after this.

Anwar · January 22 2013, 06:17 AM

Dismantled, most likely.

DonIago · January 22 2013, 06:27 AM

What happened to Lore? He was disassembled. End of story.

January 5 2013, 06:23 PM	#1
Melakon Commodore Location: Unmarked grave, Ekos	Thoughts on "Descent" I just watched "Descent 1 & 2" for the first time in over ten years. At first there were a few nitpicky things I noticed, like why are the episode's cast and director credits in the teaser before the main title, instead of after? Then, Data asks Geordi to help him override holodeck safety protocols to perform what is essentially a live-fire training exercise, but LaForge refuses. Are two officers also required to disable protocols for simple athletic or sports exercises? When the Borg invade the bridge, it sure is lucky for us that Riker is only briefly stunned instead of seriously injured or killed in the aggressive firefight. But in Part 2, I stopped making notes as I got drawn into Brent Spiner's performance. There's a third character he's playing that we never notice. It's the Conflicted Data, halfway between the extremes of Data and Lore, and there are behavioral traits from both in him. Spiner manages to keep all three versions distinct. __________________ "Every time you think, you weaken the nation." --Moe Howard

January 7 2013, 06:49 PM	#4
WillsBabe Vice Admiral	Re: Thoughts on "Descent" I read an awesome fanfic years back, the title of which I can't recall, alas, set many years after these eps, in which Lore had been sucessful. It was essentially about how a band of beleagured humans send one of their number back to stop Data and Lore getting together. __________________

January 7 2013, 09:07 PM	#6
Anwar Vice Admiral Location: Regina, SK, Canada	Re: Thoughts on "Descent" I'm kind of surprised the renegade Borg didn't have personal shields anymore. But then again, they had built-in weapons the normal Borg don't have. Their costumes were also different for easier movement compared to the usual Borg outfit.

January 8 2013, 10:35 PM	#8
jimbotron Commander Location: Bay Area, CA	Re: Thoughts on "Descent" I did like that they brought back James Horan to once again be a naysayer about the metaphasic shields.

January 9 2013, 06:47 PM	#9
Mott the barber Commodore	Re: Thoughts on "Descent" It's been years since I've seen these so at this point I think I'll wait for the remastered versions. They were good, but not great, Borg episodes. I like when they deactivated Lore for the last time...kind of emotional even though he was a horrible "person." __________________ It's not you I hate, Cardassian. I hate what I became... because of you. --Miles O'Brien in "The Wounded"

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January 22 2013, 04:26 AM	#11
Captain McBain Commander Location: DS9 Mirror Universe	Re: Thoughts on "Descent" I never understood that holodeck scene. Data tells Geordi that since the holodeck safeties are on, "I know my life is not in danger," or words to that effect. But Geordi still refuses to help him, as though Data could be injured or destroyed. So which is it? I thought that when holodeck safeties were on, you couldn't be injured.

January 22 2013, 05:38 AM	#12
Melakon Commodore Location: Unmarked grave, Ekos	Re: Thoughts on "Descent" Data wanted to disable the safety protocols, which required consent of two officers. Maybe Geordi just thought Data was nuts trying to summon up the emotional experience again by repeatedly "killing" Borg proxies. __________________ "Every time you think, you weaken the nation." --Moe Howard

January 22 2013, 05:56 AM	#13
JeffJedi Cadet	Re: Thoughts on "Descent" I just want to know what happened to Lore after this.

January 22 2013, 06:17 AM	#14
Anwar Vice Admiral Location: Regina, SK, Canada	Re: Thoughts on "Descent" Dismantled, most likely.

January 22 2013, 06:27 AM	#15
DonIago Rear Admiral Location: Burlington, VT, USA	Re: Thoughts on "Descent" What happened to Lore? He was disassembled. End of story. __________________ --DonIago It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek... "If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"