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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old January 7 2013, 02:46 AM   #46
F. King Daniel
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Re: Harrison in the Prime Universe

I'm pretty sure the FC divergence point idea is from Shatner/Reeves-Stevenseseseseses Spectre or Dark Victory. A coin toss by Cochrane as to whether to te the Vulcans about the Borg or not.

As for "In a Mirror, Darkly" - remember that nasty regimes throughout history have rewritten literature to suit their causes. The same could easily be true of the evil Empire. Thus, the Phlox/T'Pol chitchat may not be indicitive of an earlier divergence point.
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Old January 7 2013, 02:47 AM   #47
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Re: Harrison in the Prime Universe

Procutus wrote: View Post
OK my bad, I'm going to have to pull out my ENT DVD and watch that again. I seriously don't remember that being mentioned.

That aside, I agree with you totally that I always believed the MU to have existed completely parallel to ours, from the very beginning. No divergence in a timeline, just two independent universes that evolved differently (much like in Fringe).
They likely had to be connected somehow though to continue to evolve in such a similar fashion.
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Old January 7 2013, 02:50 AM   #48
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Re: Harrison in the Prime Universe

^


There is that, with so many people existing in both sets of universes. I once wrote a novella dealing with a parallel universe, though I never got too deeply into the mechanics of how it evolved - only the idea of people dealing with their not-so-nice counterparts.
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Old January 7 2013, 03:40 AM   #49
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Re: Harrison in the Prime Universe

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
It has been suggested that, had Picard and crew not appeared in the past of 2063 as shown in ST:FC, that the Mirror Universe resulted from it.
I'm not so sure seeing as in a Mirror Darkly had what looked like Armstrong planting a Terran Empire flag on the Moon, which would mean the Terran Empire would be around at least since the 1960s in the Mirror Universe.

Come to think about it that would only be about 30 years after certain time travel incident that would have a major effect on the outcome of WWII, makes you wonder doesn't it.
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Old January 7 2013, 05:12 PM   #50
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Re: Harrison in the Prime Universe

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
It has been suggested that, had Picard and crew not appeared in the past of 2063 as shown in ST:FC, that the Mirror Universe resulted from it.

Meaning: the MU, and the resultant Terran Empire, is the 'natural' evolution of the timeline, and it was only Picard's interference from the future that created the 'good' regular universe. Not surprising, as in the 24th century of the MU there is no Empire, no Imperial Starfleet, and thus no mirror universe Ent-E, to travel back in the first place...
I don't quite agree. Aside from what Hartzilla said (which is essentially correct anyway), I just don't see FC's Zefram Cochrane as the type to pull out a shotgun and blow someone away who was very clearly unarmed and not a threat. Actually, I don't see him as the gun-toting type at all. He would probably have gotten scared and run away from the Vulcan ship and gotten himself shitfaced drunk instead.

Now with that said, the Reeves-Stevens's novel (which predated IAMD) does have FC as the convergence point, but with Picard and Co. still involved. IMHO, the novel's take makes much more sense.
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Old January 7 2013, 05:18 PM   #51
Dale Sams
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Re: Harrison in the Prime Universe

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
It has been suggested that, had Picard and crew not appeared in the past of 2063 as shown in ST:FC, that the Mirror Universe resulted from it.

Meaning: the MU, and the resultant Terran Empire, is the 'natural' evolution of the timeline, and it was only Picard's interference from the future that created the 'good' regular universe. Not surprising, as in the 24th century of the MU there is no Empire, no Imperial Starfleet, and thus no mirror universe Ent-E, to travel back in the first place...
I don't quite agree. Aside from what Hartzilla said (which is essentially correct anyway), I just don't see FC's Zefram Cochrane as the type to pull out a shotgun and blow someone away who was very clearly unarmed and not a threat. Actually, I don't see him as the gun-toting type at all. He would probably have gotten scared and run away from the Vulcan ship and gotten himself shitfaced drunk instead.

Now with that said, the Reeves-Stevens's novel (which predated IAMD) does have FC as the convergence point, but with Picard and Co. still involved. IMHO, the novel's take makes much more sense.
I was going to post on this, then my head blew up.
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Old January 7 2013, 06:04 PM   #52
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Re: Harrison in the Prime Universe

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post

Come to think about it that would only be about 30 years after certain time travel incident that would have a major effect on the outcome of WWII, makes you wonder doesn't it.

I can't that thought out of my head, now that I've read it. What a perfect divergence point to create the MU.


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Old January 15 2013, 01:12 AM   #53
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Re: Harrison in the Prime Universe

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
Kirk through Picard (including when Picard says FC with the Klingons was a disaster
The Vulcans were furious with Archer meddling in Klingon affairs (in "Broken Bow" and other eps) and so were the Klingons. Some historians would probably view Archer's actions as "disastrous". I see no conflict there.
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Old January 15 2013, 01:28 AM   #54
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Re: Harrison in the Prime Universe

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post
Kirk through Picard (including when Picard says FC with the Klingons was a disaster
The Vulcans were furious with Archer meddling in Klingon affairs (in "Broken Bow" and other eps) and so were the Klingons. Some historians would probably view Archer's actions as "disastrous". I see no conflict there.
But you have to accept the entire temporal war as a predestination paradox. There's as much reason to (more even if Enterprise sought to be free of continuity*) believe the timeline has been changed as there is not too.

*I don't actually believe that. I'd say they just wanted to go to the time-travel well.
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Old January 15 2013, 02:26 AM   #55
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Re: Harrison in the Prime Universe

The studio wanted time travel.
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Old January 15 2013, 06:09 PM   #56
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Re: Harrison in the Prime Universe

Is it possible that Harrison is a relative of Mitchell...?

Could that be the revenge angle?
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Old January 15 2013, 06:16 PM   #57
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Re: Harrison in the Prime Universe

I think it's time we accept the possibility that Gary Mitchell has nothing to do with this movie.
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Old January 15 2013, 06:42 PM   #58
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Re: Harrison in the Prime Universe

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
John Harrison is probably a pseudonym. He could be anybody - not necessarily anyone we met in the prime timeline who's named Harrison.

Me, I think he's either Garth of Izar or Gary Mitchell.
If it is a pseudonym...then why make him Garth or Mitchell in the first place?
You know what I think is curious? Where did this idea that "John Harrison" is a pseudonym come from? I saw no official statement that even hinted at that, so... is there one, or is this just fan speculation? I genuinely want to know.
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Old January 15 2013, 09:01 PM   #59
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Re: Harrison in the Prime Universe

Was it ever an official statement that the bad guy in ID would be someone we've seen before during TOS?

If so, Harrison could very likely turn out to be a fake name.
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Old January 16 2013, 01:38 AM   #60
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Re: Harrison in the Prime Universe

CommanderRaytas wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
John Harrison is probably a pseudonym. He could be anybody - not necessarily anyone we met in the prime timeline who's named Harrison.

Me, I think he's either Garth of Izar or Gary Mitchell.
If it is a pseudonym...then why make him Garth or Mitchell in the first place?
You know what I think is curious? Where did this idea that "John Harrison" is a pseudonym come from? I saw no official statement that even hinted at that, so... is there one, or is this just fan speculation? I genuinely want to know.
Several reputable websites claimed that Khan was going to be the villain of the movie. When it was announced that Cumberbatch was playing John Harrison people came up with the idea that it was a pseudonym for Khan. So yeah, fan speculation.
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