Putting the Shatner "ego issue" from TOS to rest

[TREK_GOD_1]

diankra wrote:

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It really originated in the UK in 1968? Star Trek wasn't run in the UK till June '69... Oh well, maybe they were planning ahead after looking at the US sales?

Yes, but Aurora jumped on licenses pretty quick when they were pushing TV and comic-based models. No other model maker during the 60s had as many licensed media figure kits, so its no surprise the striking look of Spock, the unusual uniform and weapons was thought to be right up their alley.

Aurora must have realized the BBC was preparing or interested in ST early on, as their box cover carried the line, "Mr. Spock of Star Trek - From the BBC TV series," instead of simply uisng AMT's subtitle "Star Trek's Most Popular Character."

[trevanian]

AtoZ wrote:

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Excellent post!

And what is particularly damning is the about-face some of them did. In the bio SHATNER WHERE NO MAN from 1979 came out, Doohan has words to the effect that Nimoy was always concerned about the character of Spock, but Shatner was concerned about the whole show.

Doohan even goes on to admit that while he might not have thought this way earlier, by the time he was interviewed he thought Shatner was the best actor in the cast. Now some of this could just be telling the interviewers what they wanted to hear, but why put it all across this way when you know you'll probably be dealing with these issues and questions repeatedly for the next 20 years?

[trevanian]

Carcazoid wrote:

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Maybe I missed something, but if Sulu was supposed to get Excelsior by "the end of the month" why was Doogie Howser's dad the captain in the next movie?

Seriously, I don't think I've ever come across an explanation for that.

Well the novelization of SFS addressed it to some degree, with Sulu having been tarred by the brush of the Genesis affair (all that X-FILES/Watergate conspiracy feel of SFS is even more retro than TUC at times.)

it obviously worked out better for Sulu this way, since he didn't have to deal with the 'lemon' version of EXCELSIOR, and presumably only got command after it had been taken from experimental status (NX) to fully operational (NCC)

But there's a lot in TWOK that is ignored or contradicted in SFS. Even though all the 'Saavik is half-Rom' stuff is cut from TWOK, it is clear she ain't a straight Vulcan anyway, given the swearing, the emotional moodswings (she sounds like a panicked cheerleader when she squeak out, 'prepare for warp speed') and her coming on to Kirk (more pronounced in the ABC version by far, with a closeup that left very little open to interpretation.)

Yet in SFS Saavik -- as directed by Nimoy, so understand this is no criticism of Robin Curtis, who I think has gotten the short end of the stick from everybody for decades when I know for a fact she is capable of delivering a much fuller-blooded performance based on a forceful and devoted schoolteacher she once played later in the 80s -- is about as unemotional a Vulcan as one could imagine, only occasionally letting excitement over a discovery hint at emotions within. Certainly her lameass 'Admiral - David is dead' as Nimoy directs it is an epic stupendously embarrassing fail.

[AtoZ]

trevanian wrote:

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Well the novelization of SFS addressed it to some degree, with Sulu having been tarred by the brush of the Genesis affair (all that X-FILES/Watergate conspiracy feel of SFS is even more retro than TUC at times.)

it obviously worked out better for Sulu this way, since he didn't have to deal with the 'lemon' version of EXCELSIOR, and presumably only got command after it had been taken from experimental status (NX) to fully operational (NCC)

But there's a lot in TWOK that is ignored or contradicted in SFS. Even though all the 'Saavik is half-Rom' stuff is cut from TWOK, it is clear she ain't a straight Vulcan anyway, given the swearing, the emotional moodswings (she sounds like a panicked cheerleader when she squeak out, 'prepare for warp speed') and her coming on to Kirk (more pronounced in the ABC version by far, with a closeup that left very little open to interpretation.)

Yet in SFS Saavik -- as directed by Nimoy, so understand this is no criticism of Robin Curtis, who I think has gotten the short end of the stick from everybody for decades when I know for a fact she is capable of delivering a much fuller-blooded performance based on a forceful and devoted schoolteacher she once played later in the 80s -- is about as unemotional a Vulcan as one could imagine, only occasionally letting excitement over a discovery hint at emotions within. Certainly her lameass 'Admiral - David is dead' as Nimoy directs it is an epic stupendously embarrassing fail.

ABC version? Please explain.

[Melakon]

ABC added some footage in their network broadcast, with alternate takes in the Saavik/Kirk turbolift scene. Those alternate takes included Saavik making more suggestive glances at Kirk.

[jayrath]

And where might we find this ABC version?

[ssosmcin]

For a Saavik elevator scene...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRYlPifDUBg

[EEE]

ssosmcin wrote:

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How about a robot salesman?

Bain ... They also had to ask her to "move her face around" when she acted. That first season whe was quite the block of wood.

This really cracks me up, because I ACTUALLY thought both Bain and Landau had NO facial muscles in the 60's (Mission Impossible). (I was even more amazed to learn well over a decade later, that they were married to each other! ...what were the chances of two people suffering from lack of facial muscles syndrome (LOFMS) meeting any marrying?)

[AtoZ]

Melakon wrote:

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ABC added some footage in their network broadcast, with alternate takes in the Saavik/Kirk turbolift scene. Those alternate takes included Saavik making more suggestive glances at Kirk.

Ok, thank you. That explains my experience in January 1988. I was staying in a hotel and having a few late night drinks to pass the time when I came across TWOK. Watching it, it seemed different somehow and I couldn't put my finger on it, and it was the exact scene you have related.

Thank you. I always remembered that little event and always wondered if the drink affected me more than usual.

[Dale Sams]

Maybe someday we can figure out why Scotty took his nephew to the bridge. Perhaps it was the verbal equivalent of hitting the wrong button on an elevator.

"Bridge! I mean Sickbay!!! ***-Damnit!!"

[YARN]

Dale Sams wrote:

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Maybe someday we can figure out why Scotty took his nephew to the bridge. Perhaps it was the verbal equivalent of hitting the wrong button on an elevator.

"Bridge! I mean Sickbay!!! ***-Damnit!!"

[ssosmcin]

Dale Sams wrote:

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Maybe someday we can figure out why Scotty took his nephew to the bridge. Perhaps it was the verbal equivalent of hitting the wrong button on an elevator.

"Bridge! I mean Sickbay!!! ***-Damnit!!"

This was addressed in Doohan's autobiography: "That was stupid. But that was Bill again. He railed over having to come down to engineering. He said this to Nick Meyer in front of me: 'Doohan's going to come to ME!' Now you can see why I just plain don't like the man. See, he didn't like Scotty and if you don't like Scotty, you don't like me. I don't know if I ever said this, but Scotty is 99% James Doohan and 1% accent. "


Nah, kidding.

[Photoman15]

ssosmcin wrote:

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For a Saavik elevator scene...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRYlPifDUBg

You forget how hot she was then. That was so seductive.

[Photoman15]

A beaker full of death wrote:

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Usually, yes. But let's not forget such spin-offs as
The Andy Griffith Show
Gomer Pyle USMC (a spin-off of a spin-off)
The Jeffersons
The Bionic Woman
Maude
Barnaby Jones
Mork & Mindy
LaVerne & Shirley
Happy Days itself
Lou Grant
Rhoda
Jake and the Fatman
Good Times
Benson
Green Acres

Good Times was a spin off of Maude (so it was a spin-off of a spin-off too)

[Photoman15]

Dale Sams wrote:

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But did he intentionally tank a scene with Takei that would have given him (Takei) command of a starship 4 films earlier than VI? Hnnh? HNNH!?

At least I think I read that.

So he would have a crippled (by Scotty) ship in III, not be in IV or V at all and have the same scenes in VI, maybe. By then, people would have thought "Sulu? Sulu Who?" and a different captain would have been helming the Excelsior. If Shatner did this on purpose, he did Takei the actor a big favor.