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Old January 12 2013, 02:39 PM   #31
Seven of Five
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Re: Season 4: Just how much of it can be called Fanwank?

I was disappointed by season four. There was certainly some good stuff - I enjoyed Home, the Vulcan arc, the Babel One/United arc, Observer Effect, In a Mirror Darkly, and the Demons/Terra Prime arc.

A lot of story momentum was ruined by crappy concluding episodes. It happened with the Augment arc, though to fair I never felt particularly invested in that one. The worst one, I thought, was The Aenar. All of the interesting storylines ended in United, yet they carry on looking for this albino Andorian? Affliction had a boring conclusion (don't even mention Klingon wrinkles), and IaMD went on an episode too long (even if it was to help he budget).

Storm Front was dull, as was Daedalus. Bound was terrible, and TATV always has its own thread for the amount of problems it as.

The episodes that are left that I like, are all basically fanwank. I think it comes across as this because it all came a bit too late, and also because they did too much of it. Ideally, these kinds of episodes should have been dribbled throughout the show's run, in order to continually build towards something.

It was better than seasons one and two put together though.
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Old January 12 2013, 09:58 PM   #32
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Re: Season 4: Just how much of it can be called Fanwank?

I still think the most fanwanky episodes would have been spread out more if Coto and company had known they were getting a fifth season. Since they were pretty certain that Season Four would be the last, though, I don't mind that they crammed so much in.

But in an ideal world ENT would have been closer to Season Four in style from the very beginning.
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Old January 28 2013, 01:29 AM   #33
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Re: Season 4: Just how much of it can be called Fanwank?

The plots in Season 4 weren't the best, but at least they were plots...something we hadn't seen in the past three season. I give Manny Coto a lot of credit for that.
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Old January 30 2013, 05:27 PM   #34
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Re: Season 4: Just how much of it can be called Fanwank?

I've not seen the Klingon Forehead Arc, but the show hogtied itself putting a bumpy Klingon in "Broken Bow" in the first place. If they'd started with smoothies, there would have been no need to explain STTMP Klingons, and it could have been left at DS9's "We do not discuss it with outsiders." It wasn't an issue in Voyager. It could have just been an unexplained mystery which didn't really need to be solved.

It was just another problem I had with the series, which tried to put too much emphasis on 24th century conventions.
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Old January 30 2013, 08:57 PM   #35
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Re: Season 4: Just how much of it can be called Fanwank?

Melakon wrote: View Post
I've not seen the Klingon Forehead Arc, but the show hogtied itself putting a bumpy Klingon in "Broken Bow" in the first place. If they'd started with smoothies, there would have been no need to explain STTMP Klingons,
The Klingon arc wasn't presented because of a "need" to explain anything. They were presented as another in a series of season 4 stories which dealt with the origins of many things Trek fans take for granted about the Trekverse. Ent was a prequel after all. I thought most aspects of the arc were great and the presentation of the forehead pretty well thought out and plausible.

But, I forget. You are likely among the fans who identify prequel stuff as "fanwank" and therefore, unwanted, right?
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Old January 30 2013, 10:16 PM   #36
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Re: Season 4: Just how much of it can be called Fanwank?

ENT didn't need to explain the forehead inconsistency. In truth it was DS9 that turned it into an issue by calling attention to it in "Trials and Tribble-ations." When the Klingons' look changed starting with TMP, Roddenberry wanted people to just assume they'd always looked like that, even during the TOS years. The ENT writers decided that there could be an interesting story in there and they decided to run with it. Personally, I rather enjoyed the Klingon Forehead Arc, I thought it was a pretty clever way to explain it.

Speaking of "Trials and Tribble-ations," I think it would have been better if they'd just put Michael Dorn in TOS-style Klingon makeup while the Defiant was in the 23rd century, and had none of the crew notice any difference.
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Old January 30 2013, 10:29 PM   #37
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Re: Season 4: Just how much of it can be called Fanwank?

gblews wrote: View Post
But, I forget. You are likely among the fans who identify prequel stuff as "fanwank" and therefore, unwanted, right?
Wrong. I can wank as well as anyone. Several years ago I did an animated Kirk meets Seven of Nine parody using episode voice clips and with authentic music and sound effects, with an added fake "next week" preview of Kirk vs. the Borg (which was more exciting than my main story).

Skywalker wrote:
Speaking of "Trials and Tribble-ations," I think it would have been better if they'd just put Michael Dorn in TOS-style Klingon makeup while the Defiant was in the 23rd century, and had none of the crew notice any difference.
That would have been a nice touch.
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Last edited by Melakon; January 30 2013 at 10:48 PM.
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Old January 31 2013, 09:13 PM   #38
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Re: Season 4: Just how much of it can be called Fanwank?

Melakon wrote: View Post
gblews wrote: View Post
But, I forget. You are likely among the fans who identify prequel stuff as "fanwank" and therefore, unwanted, right?
Wrong.
Then why in your original post were you complaining about Ent's need to "explain STTMP Klingons", which you apparentely felt led the show into some "fanwank" (Klingon arc episodes)? Did I misunderstand you?
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Old January 31 2013, 10:33 PM   #39
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Re: Season 4: Just how much of it can be called Fanwank?

I didn't even mention whether I thought it was wanky, you pinned that on me. My position was it didn't really need to be explained why the foreheads changed. I was surprised bumpy Klingons were in Broken Bow. I used the term Klingon Forehead Arc because I have not seen those episodes, do not automatically know their titles, and it was the quickest way to refer to them.

Maybe I can afford to get the series collection next month, so I'll be more qualified to speak on the one series I've seen the least of.

Edit: Though it's now at $163 new at Amazon, higher than when I looked last week, so maybe not.
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Old February 1 2013, 08:11 PM   #40
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Re: Season 4: Just how much of it can be called Fanwank?

Skywalker wrote: View Post
Speaking of "Trials and Tribble-ations," I think it would have been better if they'd just put Michael Dorn in TOS-style Klingon makeup while the Defiant was in the 23rd century, and had none of the crew notice any difference.
Wow, that would've been pretty funny...


Skywalker wrote: View Post
ENT didn't need to explain the forehead inconsistency.
Agreed, but I totally disagree that ENT should have revived the outdated Klingon look, unless it were to really go whole hog and deliberately make everything, from sets to effects, look as old-fashioned as TOS. (Which reminds me, I still think I had a pretty good idea in arguing that the SW prequels should've been in b&w...) Otherwise, I would've been fine with no explanation for the change, and definitely think ENT made the right call in keeping the standard Klingon look.
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Old February 1 2013, 08:12 PM   #41
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Re: Season 4: Just how much of it can be called Fanwank?

All of it, maybe. That doesn't mean it wasn't spectacular Trek.
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Old February 1 2013, 10:19 PM   #42
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Re: Season 4: Just how much of it can be called Fanwank?

Well I might be able to afford the series collection after all. One of my monthly bills was $100 lower than expected, so I'll put extra money toward my credit card bill. And if Amazon does a Presidents Day sale in a few weeks, I might be able to get it.
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Old February 1 2013, 10:26 PM   #43
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Re: Season 4: Just how much of it can be called Fanwank?

I got the whole series in mint condition for far less than the Amazon price, on eBay. Just sayin'.
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Old February 1 2013, 10:39 PM   #44
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Re: Season 4: Just how much of it can be called Fanwank?

I've read too many horror stories about E-Bay and don't visit it. I've only used Amazon twice and they haven't disappointed me.
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Old February 1 2013, 11:21 PM   #45
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Re: Season 4: Just how much of it can be called Fanwank?

The Klingon forehead arc is great stuff. We already had the problem of differing foreheads, the explanation is excellent.

Ebay is perfectly safe if you pay attention. I've been using it since 98, have over 600 feedback and have bought practically everything that way. I have been ripped off once, to the tune of 12.00. If you buy stuff via paypal you can get your money back anyway. Anyone with a "is this okay" Trek question should post it on the board, you will get told quickly if it is genuine.

Oh and like KingDaniels says, you will save heaps of money. Amazon can be very over priced.

A great place to buy dvd's is:

http://www.dvd.co.uk/

Very cheap postage (and I'm in Australia), great range, often mind blowingly cheap for tv. I bought all my Babylon 5 extra stuff from them (the rangers etc..) For obscure things that cost a lot in Aus this is where I go.

Here's their Enterprise page:

http://www.dvd.co.uk/fsearch.htm?q=e...a%3a1%3a260298

I bought some Stargate seasons from them for something like 8 dollars! They often reduce one season in a series. They might not be your cheapest for ENT but I highly recommend always checking with them, an excellent company all round.
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