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Old December 28 2012, 03:43 AM   #1
Melakon
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Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

With the early Voyager episodes, I thought the Neelix and Kes romance worked, though it should be noted I don't care for love stories.

I'd always thought of them as a couple, so it was somewhat of a surprise when there were suddenly Paris-Kes subplots with Neelix now out of the picture. Were there any hints of an impending break-up? I understand the actual split was done off-screen, but it really was awkward. It made me dislike Paris for it, which I don't think was the writing staff's intent.

Edit: I vaguely remember one episode where Neelix and Paris get in a big physical fight over something.
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Old December 28 2012, 03:56 AM   #2
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

They had a food fight in Paturation.

Kes and Neelix were still together at the time.

Apparently Neelix's friendship was more important to Tom than stealing Kes off the kitchenrat.

Most people assume that the Break up in Warlord that happened on screen while Kes was possessed, stuck. After the fact Neelix decided that the sociopath freejacking his girlfriend was probably right.

However.

If he stayed with Kes, than Sam Wildeman and Neelix would never have gotten so intimate.
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Old December 28 2012, 04:52 AM   #3
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Oh good gods no!!!!!

The Neelix/Kes thing was just down right creepy from the beginning. I always found it verging on him grooming her for a while. They could have made it him rescuing her from the Kazon, so she saw him as her saviour thus creating a strong friendship between them (which would see her give him a lung a few episodes down the line). That would have done the job just as well.

I was so happy when they split up. It seemed to do her the world of good as well, she grew her hair out and replaced all the cutesy clothing with more practical outfits
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Old December 28 2012, 05:03 AM   #4
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Neelix and Kes worked together in S1 when they were alone together in a big hostile sector. Put them on a ship together where they don't have to fight to be together the romantic excitement breaks down and the don't really have much in common. I was glad they broke up.
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Old December 28 2012, 05:51 AM   #5
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Weren't they kissing and hugging on the Transporter pad after Neelix rescued them form the Kazon?

There is no conceivable argument that they were not boyfriend and girlfirend at that point.

Which is not the same thing as saying that they had begun a sexual relationship.

Hell.

They didn't even share a quarters.
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Old December 28 2012, 09:57 AM   #6
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

I think it starts back as far as "Twisted".
Neelix is very condesending toward her in much of the episode and you can clearly see her starting to get pissed off by him. It gets worse later in the series when he keeps insisting shes flirting with Tom, she says she not interested in him but Neelix wont believe her. The trust between them is already starting to breakdown. However, I dont know why they waited until "Warlord" to do it. Wasn't finding out in "Fair Trade" he used to smuggle narcotics and stealing and lying to everyone enough for her to bounce?
However, going from a homeless ex-drug dealer to a traitor womanizer like Tom to the dude in "Darkling", just tells me Kes had really bad taste in men and would have probably ended up either in jail or dead from a phaser wound in an alley on some planet.
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Old December 28 2012, 10:13 AM   #7
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Neelix's stalker mentality was rather creepy and off putting. It made the character look awful. That she stayed with him as long as she did was remarkable. I'm glad that they broke up because that relationship never made sense. He was often so mean to her.
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Old December 28 2012, 10:30 AM   #8
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Kes killed Tuvix, because she missed Neelix.

Up till that point they were deeply in love and there was no signs of cracking.

Gosh, then here's the snuggling and cuddling while they watched 20th century TV together in Futures End, and there was definitely no signs that there was anything wrong with their relationship... The very episode before Warlord.

Although Fair Trade is the very episode before Darkling where Kes seemed free and clear to sow her oats.

Maybe it was the drug dealing?

But then what does Kes know from Drug dealers?

The concept of a criminal like that who kills to maintain the supply of product that slowly kills his customers who are addicted and can't help themselves must be ever so alien?
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Old December 28 2012, 10:30 AM   #9
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

No!

The Kes/Neelix relationship was logical in the beginning. Kes saw Neelix as a very exciting person who had seen everything and been everywhere, something she wanted to do herself. Neelix found her very beautiful and was in love with her for that reason.

But when they came on bard Voyager, their lives went in different directions. Kes adapted quickly to her life on the ship while Neelix obviously had some difficulties to fit in, therefore his almost hysterical whims about being cook, Morale Officer, journalist, Ambassador and constantly harassing Janeway, Torres and especially Tuvok about work in Engineering, being on the away teams and so on.

On top of that we had Neelix jealousy and his attempts to supervise and control her which put a strain on their relationship early on. As I see it, it took almost too long before it broke up. It would have been logical with a break-up after "Parturition".

One sad thing is how the break-up was handled. Kes breaks up with Neelix while she's controlled by Tieran and no explanation why their relationship remained broken up after Kes being restored to normal. There should have been a proper break-up in season 2, which should have been more carefully explained and developed in 2-3 episodes. But the writers obviously had difficulties to handle romances and break-ups, something we did see in both Voyager and TNG.
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Old December 28 2012, 10:41 AM   #10
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

I liked the fact they broke up, but for different reasons.

We've seen couple come together on Trek, but never breaking up. It was interesting and could have made for some good moments on the show. The producers/writers however, dropped the ball again.

Other then that, I was never 'invested' in them as a couple.
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Old December 28 2012, 10:44 AM   #11
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
The Neelix/Kes thing was just down right creepy from the beginning.
Agreed, creepy was the one word that sprang to mind when I saw this thread.
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Old December 28 2012, 11:26 AM   #12
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

It's the same thread it's always been.

How old was Neelixes final girlfriend in Homestead?

I'm not saying that she was too young for him, but she was definitely too young to be the mother of that tweenie, unless she was a tweenie herself when she had him.

It might just be the legal and morally condoned habit of Talaxian men to marry very young girls, no different than on Earth just about everywhere before the 20th century... The poor could do what ever they wanted, but if you had a couple farthings to rub together your parents were going to sell you or buy someone else you were stuck with.
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Old December 28 2012, 11:49 AM   #13
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
I was so happy when they split up. It seemed to do her the world of good as well, she grew her hair out and replaced all the cutesy clothing with more practical outfits
See that's not the normal pattern at all. Usually when a woman is finally free of some controlling doofus she chops all her hair off and bins all the dowdy stuff, the "I've given up" wardrobe. Replaces it with much nicer things.

This must be some Ocampan reversal deal.
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Old December 28 2012, 12:43 PM   #14
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

I liked how real the Neelix/Kes relationship seemed. Don't take that as I thought they should've stayed together, just that the relationship and it's evolution was pretty realistic.

Look at it from Kes's point of view. Despite the fact that Neelix was basically a glorified garbage man, he was literally the most exciting man Kes had ever met. He lived among the very stars she had dreamed of all her life. His embellished stories of adventure were no doubt very appealing to her and their life on Voyager was to be yet another adventure.

Neelix really did it to himself in the end though. He was possessive to the point of stalking her. He got jealous if she even talked with a member of the opposite gender, and generally was overbearing. Sure, it did take an alien possessing Kes to dump him, but she stuck with it afterward. That's quite telling considering she said Ocampa mate for life.

To me it was as if Kes had outgrown Neelix. No longer was she the innocent girl, coming along with Neelix on an adventure. She had matured, was exposed to plenty of adventures in her own rights, had her own sense of self worth, and though it took an alien possession to do the deed of dumping him, the thought was already there being she didn't go back to him. Her world had gotten so much bigger from when she had first met Neelix, and that made him only so much smaller.
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Old December 28 2012, 06:35 PM   #15
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Maybe I was accepting of the Neelix/Kes relationship because I was trying to find something to like about Neelix. He seemed to be strictly a comic relief character to me, but occasionally he got some meatier stuff to do.
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