RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,276
Posts: 5,350,065
Members: 24,610
Currently online: 680
Newest member: VST

TrekToday headlines

Drexler TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Jul 26

Retro Review: His Way
By: Michelle on Jul 26

MicroWarriors Releases Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Ships Of The Line Design Contest
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Next Weekend: Shore Leave 36!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

True Trek History To Be Penned
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Insight Editions Announces Three Trek Books For 2015
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

To Be Takei Review by Spencer Blohm
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Mulgrew: Playing Red
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Hallmark 2015 Trek Ornaments
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 1 2013, 11:18 PM   #271
Kevin W.
Commander
 
Kevin W.'s Avatar
 
Location: California
Send a message via AIM to Kevin W.
Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

Trek needed something new. I don't know if a reboot was the answer, but I do know that if a reboot was the answer, Abrams' work wasn't it.
__________________
Ari Gold: "We're gonna get drunk with Russell Crowe and we're gonna head-butt some goddamn kangaroos."
Kevin W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 1 2013, 11:19 PM   #272
DalekJim
Fleet Captain
 
DalekJim's Avatar
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Except with doctor who its a new actor in the role, same backstory and generally cares about the same people. What you're proposing is using new people who I would not necessarily give a flying crap about.
Well, unless you only like TOS then I'd say you've given a crap about another crew since so step outside your comfort zone once more and take a risk.
DalekJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 1 2013, 11:24 PM   #273
DalekJim
Fleet Captain
 
DalekJim's Avatar
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

ROBE wrote: View Post
Slightly off topic just because the 9th Doctor looks in a mirror and makes a comment about his ears is not proof he just regenerated, I am sure we all make comments every morning about our appearance.
The production team and actor have both said in outside interviews that it's a reaction to the regeneration (See Eccleston on Jonathan Ross). Also, why would he be acting like he wasn't used to his new face? It couldn't be anything else but a regeneration reference.
DalekJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 1 2013, 11:24 PM   #274
Awesome Possum
I've Rebooted Myself
 
Awesome Possum's Avatar
 
Location: Someplace Shiny
View Awesome Possum's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to Awesome Possum Send a message via AIM to Awesome Possum
Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Except with doctor who its a new actor in the role, same backstory and generally cares about the same people. What you're proposing is using new people who I would not necessarily give a flying crap about.
Well, unless you only like TOS then I'd say you've given a crap about another crew since so step outside your comfort zone once more and take a risk.
It took a few years before Picard and the crew were accepted by audiences, something the other spin-offs couldn't come close to. Even then, they had seven seasons before getting a movie. You weren't just introduced to them in a new movie without any prior introduction.
__________________
"Libertarianism is a good idea on paper, until you look at it."
Greg Proops, The Smartest Man in the World
Awesome Possum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 1 2013, 11:44 PM   #275
Noname Given
Vice Admiral
 
Location: None Given
Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post
Can I repectfully say, IMHO, that the Kirk character pandered to the non-fans perception of him, and not 'a stack of books with legs', .
On the other hand, we never actually saw "the stack of books with legs" onscreen. That was one line of dialogue in one episode, as opposed to 79 episodes and 7 movies in which Kirk was a dynamic, swashbuckling leading man. So, yeah, when you think of Kirk, does anybody really think of him as a "stack of books with legs." The "fact" that Kirk used to be a book worm is a bit of trivia, not the essence of the character in the popular imagination. It has nothing to do with the character we actually grew up watching.

So, yeah, I think the movies should feature the Kirk the audience expects to see, regardless of some obscure bit of trivia from one old episode.

"When the legend becomes the truth, print the legend."

Worse - the lined referred to appeared in the second pilot - where they hadn't even had time to develop the characters, hell, Spock is practically smiling in that same second pilot episode when he states;

"Ah, one of your Earth emotions."

There's also the fact that in that articular pilot it was stated one of Spock's ancestors had human blood - which TPTALLY
contradicts what was shown in Season 2's "Journey to Babel" - where we see it ISN'T an ancestor (meaning passed on person); it's Spock's living mother.

Just gooes to show how much you can cherry pick out of 79 eps. and 6 feature films if you want to hate on a well done reboot where the DID in fact, really capture the essence of these characters (particularly Karl Urban as Doctor leonard McCoy).
Noname Given is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 1 2013, 11:49 PM   #276
UFO
Captain
 
UFO's Avatar
 
Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

Cartoonist wrote: View Post
I can't agree with any of that.
So you also believe thumbtack was in grave danger of becoming a "Star Trek universe fan" had their insidious subculture not be "exposed".

First of all, as far as I know, the actors were all about ten years younger (with the glaring exception of Pike); so I'm not sure why you weren't convinced they were ten years younger. Their age is just a fact, it doesn't require convincing.
Sorry, I was imprecise, but I would never have anticipated your interpretation of my comments in a million years. Certainly they were ten years younger, that’s the problem. I meant the idea of putting the entire crew on the bridge of a capital ship, combined with the way they did it, ten years before it happened in TOS was unconvincing. Kirk himself was the most prominent example of course, but in addition, the original cast were made the ages they were for a reason.

Secondly, most of the reaction I saw (and the reaction I had, as a TOS fan first and foremost) was that Abrams and the cast DID get the characters right. They NAILED them without seeming like they were doing an impersonation. That was the consensus among Trekkies, from what I saw at the time.
Those were Trekkies who liked the movie I take it? To me only Bones seem more or less the same person and I believe there was some criticism because of that (as well as praise of course). Sulu and Chekov didn’t register much one way or the other from my point of view. Spock started well enough but got "nobbled" (in more ways than one). Kirk, Uhura and Scotty were just unrecognisable, except for a glimpse of "Kirk" at the end.

… I saw the film five times in the theaters, to accompany Trek-hating friends of mine who were interested in seeing it. I don't evangelize Trek, but when someone I know expresses an interest in it I don't waste any time. Every last one of them expressed interest in seeing it because they'd heard (not from me) that it was a reboot. …
Well I might be too restrictive when it comes to definitions but reboot to me means "To discard all previous continuity and start anew". That didn’t happen. OK, most seem to feel that "reboot" is close enough. More likely it is just the currently fashionable term and is used for everything.

What I am more interested in is how your friends found out it was a "reboot" as opposed to a "prequel", which was the impression I got before I saw the movie? The official promotion came across as a prequel, though I doubt anything actually stated that. Was there anything in official publicity to say it was a reboot, or even mention the new universe? My guess is your friends found some entertainment sites that may have been speculating along those lines but I never bothered with those. Heck, I’m not even the sort of fan who would immediate start worrying about how they could fit such pretty young things into the original time-line! But despite being a fan of all past Trek, I could tell from official material this was likely a major departure in substance as well as style, and almost didn’t see it. I had no idea at that point it would promote a relatively "pessimistic" version of Trek from a number of pionts of view. In any event I doubt your friends wanted to see it simply "because" it was a reboot or a prequel. More likely they just though it looked good (ie. more "mainstream").

I tried to get them all into watching the shows afterward. A few gave them a chance, but only one kept watching. Yet we're ALL going to see Into Darkness.
Hmmm. And that doesn’t tell you anything? No, I suppose not.


A Very Jewel Christmas wrote: View Post
It took a few years before Picard and the crew were accepted by audiences, something the other spin-offs couldn't come close to. Even then, they had seven seasons before getting a movie. You weren't just introduced to them in a new movie without any prior introduction.
However Trek fans are now used to that idea and new motives have the same problem all the time. Its all about whether the characters can "grab" an audience which in this case managed to overcome any resistance to these "interlopers".

Last edited by UFO; January 2 2013 at 12:02 AM.
UFO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 2 2013, 12:12 AM   #277
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

Star Trek is a series of movies and tv shows, not a "universe," and the people running Paramount would have to be dimwits to throw hundreds of millions of dollars at trying to satisfy the relatively few folks who take the "Star Trek Universe" seriously.

I mean, if you care what Sarium Krellide is you're nobody's target audience.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 2 2013, 12:40 AM   #278
BeatleJWOL
Commander
 
BeatleJWOL's Avatar
 
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Send a message via AIM to BeatleJWOL Send a message via Yahoo to BeatleJWOL
Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
I mean, if you care what Sarium Krellide is you're nobody's target audience.
Sounds like the Hollywood mindset: passionate people with attention to detail are not nearly as important as butts in seats that pay lots of money...
BeatleJWOL is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 2 2013, 12:42 AM   #279
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

Noname Given wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post
Can I repectfully say, IMHO, that the Kirk character pandered to the non-fans perception of him, and not 'a stack of books with legs', .
On the other hand, we never actually saw "the stack of books with legs" onscreen. That was one line of dialogue in one episode, as opposed to 79 episodes and 7 movies in which Kirk was a dynamic, swashbuckling leading man.

Worse - the line referred to appeared in the second pilot - where they hadn't even had time to develop the characters, hell, Spock is practically smiling in that same second pilot episode when he states;

"Ah, one of your Earth emotions."
Good point. Did the show ever describe the young Kirk in those terms again, or was that just an odd artifact from the pilot that was largely forgotten as the show found itself--like Dr. Piper and the phaser rifle and "Jame R. Kirk"?
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 2 2013, 12:50 AM   #280
Awesome Possum
I've Rebooted Myself
 
Awesome Possum's Avatar
 
Location: Someplace Shiny
View Awesome Possum's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to Awesome Possum Send a message via AIM to Awesome Possum
Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

UFO wrote: View Post
However Trek fans are now used to that idea and new motives have the same problem all the time. Its all about whether the characters can "grab" an audience which in this case managed to overcome any resistance to these "interlopers".
Paramount isn't in the business of making a minority of Trek fans happy. They want to make money from the widest possible audience. Given that Kirk and the rest of the crew are known all over the world and by far the best known crew, they went with them. Even fans didn't care for the crews as time went on, especially when it got to Voyager and Enterprise. If the fans aren't buying it, no one will. Maybe a whole new crew could have worked with the right conditions despite all evidence pointing to the opposite conclusion. But using Kirk was a better bet and Paramount did extremely well with it.
__________________
"Libertarianism is a good idea on paper, until you look at it."
Greg Proops, The Smartest Man in the World
Awesome Possum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 2 2013, 12:52 AM   #281
Squiggy
LORD SHIT SUPREME
 
Squiggy's Avatar
 
Location: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.
View Squiggy's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to Squiggy
Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

Hell yes.

The only thing that can last 40 years is actual human history...and even that is open to interpretation.

Look at Enterprise. It could've been a great addition to the universe, and I think it was a good stand-alone series...however, thanks to the 600 hours of Star Trek that preceded it, it didn't "fit". As others have said, it was weighed down with rules and timelines and what color meant what and fan boys bending over backwards to explain why we've ever heard of the two major villian species until now.

Ergo, thanks to US...the show sort of sucked, we stopped watching, and they spent the last season explaining to us why Klingons in the near future were ridged while the Klingons of the not-so-near future looked like Mexicans. Of course, we can't suspend disbelief for a second and put on our big boy pants and rationally understand or comprehend that makeup, set design, or effects of today are lightyears better than the grease paint, balsa wood, and ships on strings of TOS.

No. In universe explanations or shut up.

We weren't ever going to get another shot at the prime universe. We had been watching series after series after series birthed from the loins of Roddenberry and people were tired of it. We were tired of it. It's not 1987 anymore and television has changed. Things are darker. We weren't ever going to get another movie based on the primes - what would have been the setting? No one cared about Enterprise enough to make a movie and the TNG cast got there horrible curtain call. The other shows had been off the air for a decade.

So, that leaves us with a new ship or crew. Which would've worked swimmingly. Nothing says blockbuster like people you don't care about doing something you don't know in a place that's totally new to you.

Rant off.
__________________
ENOUGH OF THIS TURGID BASH WANKERY!
Squiggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 2 2013, 12:57 AM   #282
Kevin W.
Commander
 
Kevin W.'s Avatar
 
Location: California
Send a message via AIM to Kevin W.
Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

And yet a movie that stripped away everything that was good about Star Trek in favor of blatant blockbuster mass appeal designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator was not the answer.

That film was not Star Trek. It was a generic blockbuster with the Star Trek name slapped on it, and it was an abomination.
__________________
Ari Gold: "We're gonna get drunk with Russell Crowe and we're gonna head-butt some goddamn kangaroos."
Kevin W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 2 2013, 12:59 AM   #283
Awesome Possum
I've Rebooted Myself
 
Awesome Possum's Avatar
 
Location: Someplace Shiny
View Awesome Possum's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to Awesome Possum Send a message via AIM to Awesome Possum
Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

Is there any other franchise that has to hire historians for their own fictional universe? I know Doctor Who relies on what the writer likes and ignores what they don't like. Dropping that weight is the best thing that ever happened to Trek and frees it to go places we can't even imagine.
__________________
"Libertarianism is a good idea on paper, until you look at it."
Greg Proops, The Smartest Man in the World
Awesome Possum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 2 2013, 01:02 AM   #284
Kevin W.
Commander
 
Kevin W.'s Avatar
 
Location: California
Send a message via AIM to Kevin W.
Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

A Very Jewel Christmas wrote: View Post
Is there any other franchise that has to hire historians for their own fictional universe? I know Doctor Who relies on what the writer likes and ignores what they don't like. Dropping that weight is the best thing that ever happened to Trek and frees it to go places we can't even imagine.
They could have rebooted the franchise without falling into the LCD pit Abrams has dropped it into.
__________________
Ari Gold: "We're gonna get drunk with Russell Crowe and we're gonna head-butt some goddamn kangaroos."
Kevin W. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 2 2013, 01:05 AM   #285
Awesome Possum
I've Rebooted Myself
 
Awesome Possum's Avatar
 
Location: Someplace Shiny
View Awesome Possum's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to Awesome Possum Send a message via AIM to Awesome Possum
Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

Kevin W. wrote: View Post
And yet a movie that stripped away everything that was good about Star Trek in favor of blatant blockbuster mass appeal designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator was not the answer.

That film was not Star Trek. It was a generic blockbuster with the Star Trek name slapped on it, and it was an abomination.
What was stripped away? We had the Enterprise, a villain obsessed with revenge like half the of the movie villains and Kirk seduced a green woman.

What I say was classic Trek with better pacing and the characters that weren't Kirk, Spock or McCoy contributing to the plot. Uhura does more in the new movie than she did in three seasons and six movies and it isn't repeating what her headphone said or calling someone.
__________________
"Libertarianism is a good idea on paper, until you look at it."
Greg Proops, The Smartest Man in the World
Awesome Possum is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:00 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.