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Old December 31 2012, 08:53 AM   #76
teacake
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

:: sits back, cup of tea, enjoys reading Guy defend the smarts of Adm. Janeway ::
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Old December 31 2012, 09:48 AM   #77
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Lady, I don't want to be your damn fluffer.

Do I?

The Admiral knew the only way to get her younger self to do anything, is to attempt to force that tyke to do the exact opposite of what she is actually required to do to win out the day.

Why else would anyone as obstinate as Kathryn Janeway cast off her masterplan at the fist sign of obstacle and difficulty?

Seriously, half way through the episode we're supposed to believe that the Admiral makes a one 80 turn because some parrot in control of an outdated, antiquated and obsolete version of her ego and cunning, summons transparent arguments she had already considered months ago would rear up, and how to counter those arguments immediately and with prejudice, outwits her?

That's ridiculous.

(Unless there was some dementia or temporal aphasia.)

Bait and switch.

It's how she planned to marry Chakotay this time around before Seven could get her ducks in a row.
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Old December 31 2012, 10:18 AM   #78
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

My adoration of the Admiral is so great that even if you cast her machinations as being all about the tent pole rather than the Borg I'm still very, very fluffed.
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Old December 31 2012, 08:11 PM   #79
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Star Grinch wrote: View Post
So Admiral Janeway travels to the past.

Gives Captain Janeway the godmode version of Voyager.

Janeway uses godmode to kill the Borg and get home.

So isn't there no future Janeway to give them godmode and that equates to a reset button since that Admiral Janeway doesn't exist?
She left the universe to travel through time which divorces this woman from her own continuity, which is the rules we were taught in Year of Hell and Futures End, and even City at the Edge of Forever where Kirk was temporally shielded by the Guardian.
Then why would the Borg Queen, who is supposed to be an authority on time travel, given how "four dimentional" she thinks, operate under the assumption that if she kills young Janeway, old Janeway's bad mojo STD she assimilated would go away?
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Old December 31 2012, 10:00 PM   #80
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

You think the Queen is an authority on time travel?

After she cocked up First Contact like a rank amateur?

Besides, some times stuff disappears like in Time Squared or Time and Again, and sometimes it doesn't like in Yesterdays Enterprise of Futures end.

But if the Admiral was going to disappear, it would have been the instant that her past became impossible, which was the very instant she met her younger self and after that one moment, her existence just compounded into becoming more and more impossible after that, not that degrees of impossibility mean much since the paradox held and it was going to continue to hold because the forces moving against it were countered or irrelevant.

I say countered as in kathryn may have been using technology to moot the paradox like a time stabilizer from babylon 5, or the time travel process she used may have inoculated her washing the old in useful radiation, or as I said before: leaving the universe/going out side of time, or becoming temporally shielded from time, means that time loses track with who you are and where you're from because of the break you took from being it's bitch. Time is lazy.

Temporal shields are the same as being outside time?

Does that mean that when you are temporally shielded that you don't age?

Did Year of Hell Kathryn discover/invent immortality and not notice?

Would she have killed herself at the end so readily if she knew she had the next ten million years to deal with Annorax Casually?

One of Christopher's temporal investigation novels claims that the notion that being outside time retards the ageing process is bosh. That it's probably just some metaphasic radiation released ambiently during the process of being some place so god awfully weird.

Like how you shouldn't drink water in Mexico, but the other way around.

Are Mexicans told to drink as tap water as they can when they holiday in the states, or are they also told to stay away from yanky tap water because it contains far less nutrition, calories and insect meat.

A gallon of Mexican water a day might be as nutritious as four MacDonalds Cheeseburgers if you can keep it down.
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Old January 2 2013, 05:46 AM   #81
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Star Grinch wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Star Grinch wrote: View Post
So Admiral Janeway travels to the past.

Gives Captain Janeway the godmode version of Voyager.

Janeway uses godmode to kill the Borg and get home.

So isn't there no future Janeway to give them godmode and that equates to a reset button since that Admiral Janeway doesn't exist?
She left the universe to travel through time which divorces this woman from her own continuity, which is the rules we were taught in Year of Hell and Futures End, and even City at the Edge of Forever where Kirk was temporally shielded by the Guardian.
Then why would the Borg Queen, who is supposed to be an authority on time travel, given how "four dimentional" she thinks, operate under the assumption that if she kills young Janeway, old Janeway's bad mojo STD she assimilated would go away?
What gave you the impression the Borg Queen was an authority on time travel?
Just asking.
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Old January 2 2013, 05:53 AM   #82
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

She implied she was on the Cube Locutus was using to attack Earth, then escaped using time travel. Plus the Collective apparently has the ability to open time portals on a whim as demonstrated in First Contact.
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Old January 2 2013, 05:56 AM   #83
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

After you've assimilated a million or so individuals you probably think you are an expert on everything.
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Old January 2 2013, 05:59 AM   #84
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Seven of Nine certainly did.
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Old January 2 2013, 06:01 AM   #85
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Exactly.

Heck, if I had assimilated a million folk I would hardly be humble about it. Gives "been there, done that" a whole new meaning.
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Old January 2 2013, 06:04 AM   #86
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Star Grinch wrote: View Post
She implied she was on the Cube Locutus was using to attack Earth, then escaped using time travel. Plus the Collective apparently has the ability to open time portals on a whim as demonstrated in First Contact.
And what about the magic door they left in Earth orbit that temporally shielded ships, and could allow protagonists to chase the Borg into the past and route them before they even got a foot hold on their target?

Once you realize that the Queen could have time travelled back in Borg space where it was safe, the only feasible reason that she went all the way to Earth first was so that she could pick up her boyfriend first.
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Old January 2 2013, 06:18 AM   #87
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Maybe she knew the future Temporal Starfleet would be expecting that and never would think she'd time travel in the middle of a huge battle with witnesses and uh... yeah? Right..?
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Old January 2 2013, 06:39 AM   #88
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Star Grinch wrote: View Post
She implied she was on the Cube Locutus was using to attack Earth, then escaped using time travel.
That's an interesting way to look at it.
I took it to mean that she's more than just a physical representation but rather she exists as pure conscious thought within the collective itself. So even if her body dies, a little bit of her is within ever Drone. So it still keeps to the idea, the Borg are one. They are her and she is them. Thus: "I am the Borg."
Like she's more of a computer program than an actual physical being and she just downloads into a new body upon each "death".
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Old January 2 2013, 06:54 AM   #89
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

She could have been there physically.

Refugees/assimilated Starfleet crew from Wolf 359 made it all the way to the Delta Quadrant and had group-sex with Chakotay.
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Old January 2 2013, 07:07 AM   #90
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Re: Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
She could have been there physically.

Refugees/assimilated Starfleet crew from Wolf 359 made it all the way to the Delta Quadrant and had group-sex with Chakotay.
Yeah, could have been sent back on a sphere.


She was there physically, doesn't mean her mind was.
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