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Old December 27 2012, 11:22 AM   #16
Gov Kodos
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

Amber and The Courts of Chaos, everything else is the realm of shadows.
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Old December 27 2012, 02:04 PM   #17
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

The Pakleds
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Old December 27 2012, 04:11 PM   #18
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

Australis wrote: View Post
Despite what m'co-named above says, the Culture. Hands down.
Yeah, I have to go with the Culture.
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Old December 27 2012, 05:26 PM   #19
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

Its impossible to answer a question when we can't begin to understand civilizations as all powerful as the Q, or any number of ancient civilizations starting with those in the Lensman and Starmaker and continuing with works of Stephen Baxter, Ian Banks, etc. My mind reels at the thought of quantifying them...

A speculation: an ultimate advanced technological civilization (The Q are not technological) would be able to harness/control matter and energy in the universe, they would imbue anything that can process information down to molecular level with "smart technology". The entire universe might be a quantifiable, operating, sentient computer.
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Old December 27 2012, 06:03 PM   #20
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

The Q are little brats and quite powerless when it comes to the beings in the Perry Rhodan series.

To quote wiki:

To all life, an evolutionary theory called the "onion-shell-model" is employed. It states, that there is a continuous evolution from lower life-forms (bacteria) to higher life-forms like intelligent life and finally bodyless entities. Upon invention, the onion-shell-model was used by the authors as if there are definite and discrete stages in cosmological evolution. However, later in the series further life-forms, representing stages between the known shells, were introduced.

The main shells are:

life-less matter
bacteria
higher animals
intelligent species
intelligent species, that have contacted other species
superintelligences (SI)
matter-fountains/matter-sinks
cosmocrats/chaotarchs (high powers)

The Q would be merely a superinteligence species, cosmocrats and chaotarchsare a few whole levels more powerful, they rule EVERY universe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_Rhodan

As for technology, Rhodan's humanity itself has ships of immense power, a single one of those that can totally wipe out the Borg without breaking a sweat, or being in danger for one second.
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Old December 27 2012, 06:22 PM   #21
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

Well, the thing about the Q is that according to some accounts they are all smoke and mirrors. Not nearly as omnipotent or powerful as they like to make themselves out to be.

Unfortunately Voyager sort of ruined this idea(as it ruined so many things), but perhaps that was just more trickery.
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Old December 27 2012, 06:46 PM   #22
RAMA
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

Santaman wrote: View Post
The Q are little brats and quite powerless when it comes to the beings in the Perry Rhodan series.

To quote wiki:

To all life, an evolutionary theory called the "onion-shell-model" is employed. It states, that there is a continuous evolution from lower life-forms (bacteria) to higher life-forms like intelligent life and finally bodyless entities. Upon invention, the onion-shell-model was used by the authors as if there are definite and discrete stages in cosmological evolution. However, later in the series further life-forms, representing stages between the known shells, were introduced.

The main shells are:

life-less matter
bacteria
higher animals
intelligent species
intelligent species, that have contacted other species
superintelligences (SI)
matter-fountains/matter-sinks
cosmocrats/chaotarchs (high powers)

The Q would be merely a superinteligence species, cosmocrats and chaotarchsare a few whole levels more powerful, they rule EVERY universe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_Rhodan

As for technology, Rhodan's humanity itself has ships of immense power, a single one of those that can totally wipe out the Borg without breaking a sweat, or being in danger for one second.
I don't know, the Q probably in the Rhodan high powers category..their power ranged from the beginning of the universe to some realistic speculation on the future. Still, I have problems with intelligences/powers than range through multiverses...the physics involved are likely a limitation on such species.

When speculating on the future, I try not to go as far as including such all-powerful entities, though I don't mind speculating on hyper-advanced species within the technological realm.

Like the Culture, most stories written with species of such powers have to be done so with them on the periphery, otherwise its hard to write any drama in them..same with species even on the Borg level, at some point you have to de-power them in some way or reduce the threat, or you can never use them.

RAMA
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Old December 27 2012, 07:41 PM   #23
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

Caliburn24 wrote: View Post
Well, the thing about the Q is that according to some accounts they are all smoke and mirrors. Not nearly as omnipotent or powerful as they like to make themselves out to be.
That would have been a far superior way to present the Q in future interactions, and wouldn't have contradicted anything we saw in TNG.

They're pretty powerful, but not omnipotent. The fact that they couldn't control each other (or force humans/others to bend to their will) proves that they're not omnipotent.
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Old December 27 2012, 07:46 PM   #24
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

Other than "accidentally" making stars go supernova during their civil war, the Q never demonstrated the kind of absolute power one would expect from so-called "omnipotent" beings.

Most of what they did could be boiled down to:

* Implanted mass hallucinations.
* Varying levels of psychokinesis.
* Interdimensional travel.
* Clinical immortality.

There are nominally human superheroes who can do the above, either biologically or through the use of technology. The Q just don't seem all that powerful by comparison.

And hey, even lame-ass corporal mortals can blow up stars on command. Ask Tolian Soran.
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Old December 27 2012, 09:01 PM   #25
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

When they're on form, the Time Lords.

For starters they created the TARDIS, a virtually invulnerable ship that can travel through space and time, is bigger on the inside and is capable of hauling planets about (as much as I'd like to forget that ending).

And that's just the outdated "junk" the Doctor travels in.

They can teleport planets around time and space, trap them in eternal force fields or stick whole solar systems into a time loop at a flick of a switch.
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Old December 27 2012, 11:24 PM   #26
Santaman
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

RAMA wrote: View Post
Santaman wrote: View Post
The Q are little brats and quite powerless when it comes to the beings in the Perry Rhodan series.

To quote wiki:

To all life, an evolutionary theory called the "onion-shell-model" is employed. It states, that there is a continuous evolution from lower life-forms (bacteria) to higher life-forms like intelligent life and finally bodyless entities. Upon invention, the onion-shell-model was used by the authors as if there are definite and discrete stages in cosmological evolution. However, later in the series further life-forms, representing stages between the known shells, were introduced.

The main shells are:

life-less matter
bacteria
higher animals
intelligent species
intelligent species, that have contacted other species
superintelligences (SI)
matter-fountains/matter-sinks
cosmocrats/chaotarchs (high powers)

The Q would be merely a superinteligence species, cosmocrats and chaotarchsare a few whole levels more powerful, they rule EVERY universe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_Rhodan

As for technology, Rhodan's humanity itself has ships of immense power, a single one of those that can totally wipe out the Borg without breaking a sweat, or being in danger for one second.
I don't know, the Q probably in the Rhodan high powers category..their power ranged from the beginning of the universe to some realistic speculation on the future. Still, I have problems with intelligences/powers than range through multiverses...the physics involved are likely a limitation on such species.

When speculating on the future, I try not to go as far as including such all-powerful entities, though I don't mind speculating on hyper-advanced species within the technological realm.

Like the Culture, most stories written with species of such powers have to be done so with them on the periphery, otherwise its hard to write any drama in them..same with species even on the Borg level, at some point you have to de-power them in some way or reduce the threat, or you can never use them.

RAMA

I've read most of Perry Rhodan up to the 2035's (took years o_O) and there's no comparing the Q with a Cosmocrat, they're so vastly beyond everything humans can even imagine that they can't usually directly communicate a life form at human level, they'd have to create a sort of avatar for that which is by all means still more powerful than anything else in the universe(s).

The Q would be a super intelligence level species at most, but they're, from what we've seen in Star Trek, too limited in what they can do, the SI that keeps an eye on us humans has an influence sphere that spans the local group in this and other universes and controls several dimensions attached to these universes.
Its powers aren't displayed in the ways the Q, they're much more subtle, but on occasion they do things like absorbing an entire species to save them from extinction, also they're not beyond creating pocket universes and planets as they see fit.


As for us, we're quite badass, we've got 100,000 sphere shaped space ships each 2.5Km in diameter armed with 60 Transform cannons with a yield of 4000 to 6000 Gigaton TNT each, they shoot bombs via hyperspace and there is no traveling time, click=BOOM, planets or even the ship itself are no obstacle, hiding behind a planet doesn't work, the bombs dematerialize and then materialize inside YOUR ship, imagine 60 x 6000 Gigaton TNT exploding inside your ship...
Shielding is such that a ship can fly through a star if needed, they also have cloaks and can land on planets, imagine finding that in your backyard, hull materials are imune for antimatter and melt at 96,000c

Acceleration of a 2.5km ship is around 1000G's, FTL speeds are for the normal engines around 40,000 to 100,000 times the speed of light, specialzed Dimesexta 6D engines made it possible to reach the Sombrero nebula within weeks.
Powersuply, NUG Black shield reactors 225,000 Gigawatt per reactor, there are at least 12 of them on board.

We humans can place a shield around the entire solar system and if needed displace it through time so we're a little ahead of the rest of the universe.

http://www.pr-materiequelle.de/riss/risszei/r465.htm
Marco Polo which is a 2.5Km sphere ship.

http://www.pr-materiequelle.de/riss/poster/r1100_p.htm
A later ship, the 14Km long BASIS, mean little thing...

Its almost not possible to compare any SF series to Perry Rhodan, the story arcs sometimes span years in writing and 40.000 years in in universe history, the vastness of it all is beyond everything else in SF, it spans 51 years now and they're still writing it, the "universe" they've created is mind blowing, the characters, the technology its all HUGE.
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Old December 27 2012, 11:29 PM   #27
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

I have a suspicion that there is much less to the Q than they let on. Quinn (the Gerrit Graham version) said that people mustn't think of the Q as omnipotent even though they say they are. I'm inclined to believe him. I view the Q as "smoke and mirrors" more than anything else.
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Old December 27 2012, 11:32 PM   #28
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

i vote for humans. that species seems to turn up everywhere, so they must be resilient
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Old December 27 2012, 11:59 PM   #29
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

Merry Farrell wrote: View Post
i vote for humans. that species seems to turn up everywhere, so they must be resilient
the Master called them the greatest monsters in the universe.
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Old December 28 2012, 12:23 AM   #30
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Re: Most Powerful Sci-Fi Civilization

Davros wrote: View Post
Merry Farrell wrote: View Post
i vote for humans. that species seems to turn up everywhere, so they must be resilient
the Master called them the greatest monsters in the universe.
Earth would be Joe's Apartment for the Doctor?
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