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Old December 23 2012, 04:59 AM   #31
Dorian Thompson
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Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Thank you. It's copacetic if someone thinks Watson being a woman is a good idea, but it's not my cup of tea and I have no interest in watching. To each his or her own. Hopefully Elementary is their cup of tea.

Interestingly enough, I loved the addition of Irene and the wrinkle she threw into things. She could clear Sherlock's name. She knows Moriarty exists--of course she's sort of a wanted criminal who's supposed to be dead, so I guess that's not a viable option.

I find Sherlock and John sweet. The onscreen friendships resonate the most for me. True, I did notice a few slashy references to them online.
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Old December 23 2012, 05:08 AM   #32
Guy Gardener
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Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

This isn't the first time..

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067848/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

What's your opinion on Joanne Woodward?



I'm seeing an excess of defenestration in A Scandal in Belgrade.

Irene Jumped out a window escaping her flat, and Sherlock threw the CIA guy out his window several times, while he was seeing what could muffle a human splat, which apparently are not Mrs Hudson's bins well.

Almost like Sherlock is planning something for down the line.
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Old December 23 2012, 05:20 AM   #33
Dorian Thompson
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Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Joanne Woodward is awesome times ten. I love, love, love her work. The first time I ever saw her was in the television movie Sybill as the psychiatrist to Sally Field's titular character. The scenario described for the linked movie is intriguing, being that it was in the context of a self contained movie. The set up sounds great with the man being in the psychiatric hospital. I have to check that out. Thanks.

When it comes to turning male characters to female, I think what puts me off of it was what happened to the Starbuck character in the nuBattlestar. Initially the character was great and I had no problems with Starbuck becoming female, but what did the writers do? They had the character become the object of a prolonged, badly written love triangle/quadrangle between Apollo, Anders, and Dee that dragged on for two bloody seasons. They couldn't keep the original Apollo/Starbuck friendship intact.

But--that's only my opinion. I just felt that necessary character development for all four characters was neglected. Maybe Elementary does it better, but I prefer the Freeman/Cumberbatch dynamic. To each her own.

I never thought about Sherlock throwing the thug out of the window as being a test for down the line. Kudos to the writers if they were that forward thinking.
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Old December 23 2012, 05:21 AM   #34
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Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
I...feel that the dynamic of the loving platonic friendship of Holmes and Watson would be undermined if one of the characters were changed to a woman. There's always the temptation of some writer to add sexual tension and so few of them do it well.
There are plenty of shows on TV today featuring male and female characters with no sexual tension at all -- characters who are pure coworkers (e.g. Mac and Jo on CSI:NY or Reese and Carter on Person of Interest), or whose relationship is more like surrogate brother and sister (e.g. Pete and Myka on Warehouse 13) or surrogate father and daughter (e.g. The Middleman and Wendy on The Middleman). So in this day and age it simply makes no sense to assume that any male-female relationship in television is obligated to be romantic.

Besides, as Holmes himself said, it is a capital mistake to theorize in advance of the facts. The facts are these: Currently there are three active incarnations of Sherlock Holmes in the mass media: the Robert Downey/Jude Law films, Sherlock, and Elementary. Elementary is the only version in which Holmes and Watson are not both male. And Elementary is also the only version which, to date, has not featured sexual tension between Holmes and Watson. The other two versions wallow in gay innuendo; Elementary has so far kept things absolutely platonic between the leads.

Don't make me into a female misogynist because I think Watson should remain a man.
Okay, tell me this: How would you feel if they were both women? If your problem is with their sex relative to each other, why cast your complaint solely in terms of what Watson's sex is?
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Old December 23 2012, 05:28 AM   #35
Guy Gardener
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Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

The adventures of Shirley Holmes

We have a female Holmes and no Watson, but her assistant is already her boyfriend.
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Old December 23 2012, 05:35 AM   #36
Dorian Thompson
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Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Gay innuendo isn't sexual tension. Not in my opinion. It's just a bit of humor because in the 21st century people make assumptions about two bachelors of a certain age sharing a flat. Cumberbatch said it himself about how people would assume that about Holmes and Watson. They do love one another, but it's not sexual love. It's friendship. Some think it's slashy. I don't.

I didn't "theorize ahead of the facts." I expressed a subjective opinion about one particular fictional character on a fictional show. I enjoy Watson as a male character. Martin Freeman's performance is outstanding and I don't have to apologize for liking it. If you enjoy Elementary, that's great. Neither opinion is right or wrong. I didn't ask "what the hell is wrong with you?" for liking a show.

If TPTB switched one character, yes I'd rather they switch both, like when there was a revival of the Odd Couple on stage. Felix and Oscar were female this time. My parents saw it and thought it was great. Thank you for being a total buzz kill and implying there's something wrong with me for prefering an actor in a particular role. No, not all male/female interactions on screen have tension, but when only one iconic character in an iconic pairing is changed to the different gender, generally writers will fall prey to that temptation.

Guy, I'd never heard of that Shirley Holmes show. I think the Joanne Woodward vehicle sounds more promising.
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Old December 23 2012, 05:59 AM   #37
Guy Gardener
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Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Shirley Holmes tricked me.

I knew this show existed, but I didn't know much anything about it.

Remedying that 10 minutes ago, I looked up the main character, and I was agog.

The female lead is frighteningly attractive.

I completely forgot that Michelle Ryan existed briefly.

Without pause for breath, I instantly began downloading the Canadian comedy drama.

Canadian Comedy dramas are excellent.

"Sigh"

And then I noticed something odd.

"Merideth Henderson began her titular role at the age of 12"

Oh.

It's a children's show!

I-fricking-Carly for a by gone generation probably barely a leg up from Blues Clues.

But yes, They Might be Giants is superb even if it does get a little lost near the end.
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Old December 23 2012, 06:03 AM   #38
Dorian Thompson
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Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

I found They Might Be Giants at amazon.com. I've placed an order; I'm looking foward to it. I'd never heard of it because I never really paid much attention to anything Sherlock Holmes related. I've never even seen a Basil Rathbone movie.
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Old December 23 2012, 06:20 AM   #39
Agent Richard07
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Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

I've never heard of They Might Be Giants either. Sounds a lot like Elementary.

And I remember Shirley Holmes. I liked the intro…



Looks like you can watch entire episodes on YouTube.
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Old December 23 2012, 06:27 AM   #40
Guy Gardener
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Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Elementary, like Sherlock, is an updated story.

They Might be Giants has a crazy George C Scott who thinks that he is a historical literary figure, escape a sanatorium with his psychiatrist Doctor Mildred Watson hot on his heels cataloguing his mania.

Off to the side of all this in the lore of Doctor Who... There's a Bernice Summerfield Audio Adventure where she's lost in time for a while and teams up with Mycroft Holmes to save the day against an Alien menace.



Oh my.

The drug that lets you see the massive glowing hound!

It creates a suggestive state where you see what you're told to see, like Sherlock jumping off a building.

Did Sherlock drug John again to fake his suicidal jump?
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Old December 23 2012, 08:21 AM   #41
flandry84
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Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

I was fully prepared to hate Lucy Liu as Dr.Watson but she puts in a very good performance in a hurt/remote sort of way.Indeed the show is a lot less fuzzy than I had feared and Miller is very watchable.The shows misfortune is that it will inevitably suffer comparisons with the outstandingly quirky BBC series.
My only gripe with Elementary is that againAmerican television seems terrified to portray two men simply being friends.No implications,no shipping potential,just simple friendship.
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Old December 23 2012, 09:50 AM   #42
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Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

It's always nice to read a thread like this, makes you remember why you like the show all over again.

A Scandal in Belgravia was amazing, the actress playing Adler was just great.

Jekyll is amazing as well. James Nesbitt is a revelation, and I was always stunned how Gina Bellman could go from concerned wife to complete hottie to fiercely protective mother in a moment. It has a rich, dark tone that's just wonderful.
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Old December 23 2012, 10:17 AM   #43
lurok
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Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
I find Sherlock and John sweet. The onscreen friendships resonate the most for me. True, I did notice a few slashy references to them online.
Ah, Sherlock. The series that was just made for tumblr Tea and cheekbones.
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Old December 23 2012, 02:23 PM   #44
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Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
How many orders of magnitude is Sherlock more awesome than Elementary?
Elementary is a decent US police procedural with Holmes grafted on. Its well written and well played. I like it.

Sherlock is surprising, sharp, intelligent, brilliantly written and acted. It really is awesome (a much overused description).

No contest...
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Old December 23 2012, 02:54 PM   #45
Christopher
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Re: Anyone familiar with the BBC version of Sherlock Holmes? (spoiler

Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
I didn't "theorize ahead of the facts." I expressed a subjective opinion about one particular fictional character on a fictional show.
A show you have never watched. How is that not judging in advance of the facts?


I didn't ask "what the hell is wrong with you?" for liking a show.
This isn't about whether you like the show, because you've never seen the show. You can't like or dislike something you haven't actually tried. Lots of people who thought they'd hate Elementary sight unseen have discovered that they liked it when they actually saw it.


No, not all male/female interactions on screen have tension, but when only one iconic character in an iconic pairing is changed to the different gender, generally writers will fall prey to that temptation.
"Generally?" It sounds to me like you're basing that assumption on a single example, Starbuck. That doesn't prove a general rule. Although it's not as if the original Starbuck was "iconic." The original BSG was an ambitious flop with a very limited cult following. So I'm not sure there actually are any examples of what you're claiming here.

And even if there are, it doesn't prove that's what they're going to do in this particular case. And even if they do go that way, that doesn't prove they won't actually make it work. People thought the basic idea of the show wouldn't work at all, but it's a hit and has won over many Sherlockians. So even something that sounds like a bad idea on paper can be made to work.
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