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Old December 17 2012, 09:42 PM   #1
Dingo
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Breen Confederacy Races

The Typhon Pact series revealed that the Breen are four different species (at least) with the Fenrisal, Paclu, Amoniri, and Silwan being identified.

With the fact that at least twice in the DS9 series the main characters had commandeered Breen armor (presumably either stealing suits left lying around or killing their owners - i.e. Kira and Dukat in Indiscretions and Kira in What You Leave Behind) I wonder how it could be conceivable that the fact that the Breen are at least four different species remained unknown till Bashir's undercover mission in the Typhon Pact.

I'm thinking one of two theories came about. Either the two they killed were Amoniri (the sort that evaporate when exposed to natural air) or the latter theory:

Given the Breen are secretive I'm certain that bodies of their soldiers are fitted with some form of disintegration mechanism (minus the aforementioned Amoniri who evaporate if exposed to normal air anyway) to destroy their bodies to prevent hostile forces from learning anything about their physiology.
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Old December 18 2012, 02:12 AM   #2
T'Girl
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Re: Breen Confederacy Races

All of the Breen bodies could have been from just one of the Breen species. Other Breen could have been kill in such a fashion as to leave no bodies, disintegrated, aboard a destroyed ship, etc..

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Old December 18 2012, 03:26 AM   #3
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Re: Breen Confederacy Races

With so few Breen suits being used by other characters, I don't think it's much of a stretch to say they all happened to be from the same species...and not one that would evaporate, as that would certainly be worthy of note.
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Old December 18 2012, 03:59 AM   #4
The Wormhole
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Re: Breen Confederacy Races

First of all, the Breen being four different races isn't canon and is also an idea created for the novels. It wasn't on anyone's mind at all thoughout DS9. On DS9 the Breen were meant to be so mysterious that even their dialogue went untranslated.

I've always assumed the suits had some sort of self disintegration inside as a means of avoiding capture. But if you want to assume they evaporate, than why not?
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Old December 18 2012, 08:16 AM   #5
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Re: Breen Confederacy Races

I never really followed DS9. Were the Breen related to this guy?
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Old December 18 2012, 02:48 PM   #6
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Re: Breen Confederacy Races

The Breen were a mysterious and enigmatic race who always went around in outfits which looked similar to Princess Leia's bounty hunter disguise in ROTJ and they communicated through some weird noise which was never translated for the audience.

The Breen were first mentioned in TNG's Hero Worship, as one of the races which could have potentially attacked SS Vico. Strangely enough, when the kid said his attackers wore helmets, the Breen were scratched off the list.

I don't think there was any intentional to that guy. Most likely, whoever wrote Hero Worship might have had a friend named Breen, tossed the name in there as an alien species for fun, then later DS9 decided to give these aliens a name which had been mentioned previously but not actually seen on screen.
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Old December 18 2012, 03:03 PM   #7
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Breen Confederacy Races

I thought the novelverse Breen were a fantastic way to reconcile the highly contradictory Breen tidbits in TV Trek.

Remember, the Breen weren't that well known during TV/film Trek. It was only during the Dominion war that we we viewers saw them for the first time. They were a big unknown. Remember also that Picard's crew knew the Ferengi only by rumour in "The Last Outpost", even though Starfleet and the Vulcans were explicitly warned about them after the events of "Aquisition" 200 years prior. Space is HUGE, and the sheer size of it and volume there is to learn and know about everything, not everyone can have all the answers at their fingertips at all times.

By the time of the Cold Equations novels, the Enterprise-E crew are well aware of the Breen's true nature - as a result of the intelligence gathered in Zero Sum Game and similar missions.
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Old December 18 2012, 03:08 PM   #8
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Re: Breen Confederacy Races

Strangely enough, when the kid said his attackers wore helmets, the Breen were scratched off the list.
Actually, it goes more like this: Little Tim tells Picard that there were rifle-armed attackers with purple helmets coming aboard the ship. Picard relays this testimony to LaForge. And LaForge says that this is very unlikely, because there's no evidence that the ship was boarded at all.

Whether the helmet thing counts in Breen favor or disfavor, it's difficult to tell. If we want to argue the nuances, here's the dialogue:

Data: "Fracture points indicate that the energy burst came from a range of less than 3,000 meters."
Picard: "But that's a strategy consistent with a cloaked vessel. Romulan. Or Klingon. But we're quite a distance from either of their territories."
Data: "The Breen have outposts in this sector. The attack on the Vico is consistent with their battle tactics and their level of technology."
Picard: "Thank you, Data. But what would the Breen be doing inside the Black Cluster? The boy described a boarding party with helmets and phaser rifles."
LaForge: "Boarding party? I don't think that's likely, Sir." [..] There was absolutely no evidence of anybody coming on board the Vico.
So cloaks count in favor of Klingons or Romulans, but location both rules them out and sort of suggests the Breen. Tactics and tech don't rule out the Breen. This leaves Picard musing - and he has both doubts that the Breen would go into the Cluster, and and urge to point out that the boarders had helmets and phasers. The latter might be simply because Picard thinks this is the only real piece of physical evidence they have, everything else being circumstantial, not because he thinks it points in one direction or another. In retrospect, we can argue that Picard is indecisive because going into nebulae is not a Breen thing but the helmet evidence fits like a glove...

They were a big unknown.
But only to the audience. The heroes knew next to nothing about the Ferengi, but they did know the Breen lived on a cold planet, had no blood, and commonly engaged in teen pregnancies! The latter bit specifically sounds like the Breen were a big known in the 2360s already...

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Old December 18 2012, 03:39 PM   #9
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Re: Breen Confederacy Races

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
First of all, the Breen being four different races isn't canon and is also an idea created for the novels. It wasn't on anyone's mind at all thoughout DS9.
First of all, nobody here needs to be lectured on what's canon and what isn't. This isn't a discussion about canon, it's a discussion about possibilities that canon didn't address. When what's onscreen is limited, fandom and tie-in authors speculate beyond it, just as they've been doing for 45 years. Sure, it won't be confirmed by any onscreen source, but there's no new 24th-century Trek being made anyway, so what possible difference does that make? Even if some new canon eventually did come along to contradict it, that doesn't make it wrong for us to conjecture about the possibilities. Fiction is an exercise in imagination, after all.
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Old December 18 2012, 03:43 PM   #10
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Re: Breen Confederacy Races

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Remember, the Breen weren't that well known during TV/film Trek. It was only during the Dominion war that we we viewers saw them for the first time.
Actually, no. The Breen were first seen in Indiscretion, a fourth season DS9 episode. That's nearly two years before the Dominion War began.

Of course, in that episode where hear the Breen making normal sounding grunts moans as opposed to later on when all noises made by the Breen were rendered in that strange noise that was apparentally their language.
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Old December 18 2012, 04:11 PM   #11
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Re: Breen Confederacy Races

...what possible difference does that make?
Well, the original poster is worried that there is an improbability in the material, what with there being onscreen exposure of the Breen and offscreen existence of four species - namely, that the onscreen characters don't seem to realize that four species exist. But the worry becomes sort of meaningless if one acknowledges that the on- and offscreen materials are distinct things: onscreen, there aren't four species to be exposed, and offscreen, there is no "lack of knowledge" because the onscreen statements on the Breen are only a tiny fraction of all statements made.

Or then we may acknowledge that the offscreen writers didn't do a very good job when they created things that don't mesh well with the preceding onscreen material. But that's sort of unnecessary, because their creation of four species included the creation of the idea that the heroes indeed are aware of the four, and steered clear of contradictions.

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Old December 19 2012, 12:59 PM   #12
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Re: Breen Confederacy Races

I find it extremely likely that Breen suits have a destruct mechanism to eliminate all traces of the body inside it if the suit is opened. If the four species wear those suits to disguise their identities, it stands to reason they wouldn't want outsiders to know about it.
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Old December 19 2012, 01:12 PM   #13
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Re: Breen Confederacy Races

What would be the purpose of such a suit?

It doesn't provide much anonymity: Cardassians know where these folks live, and could throw a cosmic Molotov cocktail at their home any time, regardless of whether they wear masks in public or not.

It doesn't provide deniability, either, as it would appear to be unique to the Breen and would directly establish them as the culprits even if the bodies of the perpetrators disappeared.

It would make sense for some completely unrelated species to wear the suits to implicate the Breen. But that would depend on the Breen cooperating by choosing to have such suits in the first place...

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Old December 19 2012, 02:45 PM   #14
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Re: Breen Confederacy Races

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I thought the novelverse Breen were a fantastic way to reconcile the highly contradictory Breen tidbits in TV Trek.
I thought so as well. I was noticeably impressed (I was 'ohing and ahing' out loud as I was reading this book and my wife commented to me that I must be reading 'a good one') at how well the Breen were fleshed out as a race. There was obviously a lot of though put into this and it showed. It all made perfect sense and cleared up so many questions.

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I find it extremely likely that Breen suits have a destruct mechanism to eliminate all traces of the body inside it if the suit is opened. If the four species wear those suits to disguise their identities, it stands to reason they wouldn't want outsiders to know about it.
This also makes sense to me. A race so secretive would surely put a mechanism in place to prevent other races from discovering who they really are.

As for being canon - canon shmanon - just enjoy the damned story. Mack was able to come up with some pretty ingenious solutions to all those nagging questions that DS9 left behind.
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Old December 19 2012, 02:52 PM   #15
The Wormhole
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Re: Breen Confederacy Races

Timo wrote: View Post
What would be the purpose of such a suit?

It doesn't provide much anonymity: Cardassians know where these folks live, and could throw a cosmic Molotov cocktail at their home any time, regardless of whether they wear masks in public or not.

It doesn't provide deniability, either, as it would appear to be unique to the Breen and would directly establish them as the culprits even if the bodies of the perpetrators disappeared.

It would make sense for some completely unrelated species to wear the suits to implicate the Breen. But that would depend on the Breen cooperating by choosing to have such suits in the first place...

Timo Saloniemi
The only really logical explanation is the one given in the novels: the suits are an effort to cut down on prejudice and discrimination between the Breen races, they all wear the one suit to make everyone equal.
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Last edited by The Wormhole; December 19 2012 at 03:23 PM.
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