RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,318
Posts: 5,352,432
Members: 24,622
Currently online: 624
Newest member: groucho900

TrekToday headlines

Drexler TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Jul 26

Retro Review: His Way
By: Michelle on Jul 26

MicroWarriors Releases Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Ships Of The Line Design Contest
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Next Weekend: Shore Leave 36!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

True Trek History To Be Penned
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Insight Editions Announces Three Trek Books For 2015
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

To Be Takei Review by Spencer Blohm
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Mulgrew: Playing Red
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Hallmark 2015 Trek Ornaments
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 20 2012, 10:13 PM   #31
Finn
Vice Admiral
 
Finn's Avatar
 
Location: In the MetroWest
Re: Biggest 'Why don't they...' in Trek

The Eggnogstic wrote: View Post
Finngle Bells wrote: View Post
The food on the planet in TOS "Plato's Stepchildren" was able to give normal humans instant telekinetics. Why didn’t they develop that more?
They weren't Humans
I suggest you re-watch the episode.
I was talking about the food. Kirk and Spock didn't do it by simply eating the food.
Finn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 20 2012, 10:54 PM   #32
KamenRiderBlade
Lieutenant Commander
 
KamenRiderBlade's Avatar
 
Re: Biggest 'Why don't they...' in Trek

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ Maybe the substance from Plato's Stepchildren is toxic if taken in quantities that are too large. The people on the planet adapted to it, but Kirk and company could not. I'd buy that explanation.

Or, it could be for the same reason Alexander refused to take it: They don't want to become like the Platonians. Having power like that is inherently corrupting. If it went into wide use, there'd be a lot more people acting like the Platonians, and no one wants that.

KamenRiderBlade wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post

The Borg can repair damage like that.
The one time in VOY they did do that, the Borg vessel was smaller than Voyager, so they were completely destroyed.
In Q Who, the Borg cube was shown to repair damage very quickly.
In Q Who, that cube was MUCH bigger than the Enterprise D.

The episode where VOY beamed over a torpedo onto the small Borg scout vessel.

The said scout vessel was smaller than Voyager.

They were destroyed in 1 shot.

I think the main info you should take away from this is if you don't kill everything on a borg ship in 1 shot, they'll regenerate.
KamenRiderBlade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 20 2012, 11:31 PM   #33
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: Biggest 'Why don't they...' in Trek

double post.

Last edited by T'Girl; December 21 2012 at 02:33 AM.
T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 20 2012, 11:32 PM   #34
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: Biggest 'Why don't they...' in Trek

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ Maybe the substance from Plato's Stepchildren is toxic if taken in quantities that are too large. The people on the planet adapted to it, but Kirk and company could not. I'd buy that explanation.
Also the psychokinetic powers provided by the food might only work on (or around) the planet Platonius. Like Flint's immortality, move away from a certain planet, and the "gift" disappears.

T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 20 2012, 11:41 PM   #35
datalogan
Lieutenant Commander
 
datalogan's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Biggest 'Why don't they...' in Trek

Finngle Bells wrote:

datalogan wrote:
The water on Scalos in TOS “Wink of an Eye” could speed up regular people to super-human speeds. And there was a ready antidote. So, why not have some Scalosian water (and antidote) around for emergencies when you need to move quickly?
Probably has serious side effects.

datalogan wrote:
The food on the planet in TOS "Plato's Stepchildren" was able to give normal humans instant telekinetics. Why didn’t they develop that more?
datalogan wrote:
Dimensional shifting transporter in TNG “The High Ground”. Sure, it killed people, but it could still be used to send supplies/bombs without problem
datalogan wrote:
Trilithium star bombs in ST:Generations and DS9 "By Inferno's Light"
Subspace weapons

Thaloron weapons

The fact that these things may/do have serious side effects would probably be reason enough to not use them during normal times. But what about serious emergencies / war? Situations where the only other probably outcome is your death anyway. I’d probably be willing to use some questionable methods in a terrible, one-sided war like the Dominion War.


Finngle Bells wrote:
datalogan wrote:
Drug-based Fountain of Youth in TNG "Too Short a Season"
Why would they? It killed Jameson.
Jameson overdosed. Seems like it could have worked if he hadn’t taken both his supply AND his wife’s all at once. I figure somebody interested in de-aging would follow up on that. Still, it was difficult for Jameson to get ahold of, so probably not very easy to make/get. Which is a good enough reason to not see it again/much.
datalogan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 20 2012, 11:47 PM   #36
datalogan
Lieutenant Commander
 
datalogan's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Biggest 'Why don't they...' in Trek

A lot of these things weren’t done on the show just because the writers never thought about them.

Many were not done because the writers just wanted to get back to the status quo of the show and forget about the incredible thing that they accidentally revealed that our heroes could do in one episode that then made all future episodes much more difficult to write. [Transwarp long-distance beaming in 2009 Star Trek movie.]

And some of these were probably purposely not done by our heroes in episodes because they were suppose to represent a better version of humanity.

datalogan wrote:
I’d probably be willing to use some questionable methods in a terrible, one-sided war like the Dominion War.
Maybe, but would our heroes (other than Sisko)?
datalogan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21 2012, 12:09 AM   #37
Arpy
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Biggest 'Why don't they...' in Trek

^ Right, because for the writers it isn't about continuity as much as concept. "What if" these characters had to face such and such a dilemma this week? Next week they're facing another dilemma and forget it that the problem discovered last week could be the solution used this week...we've moved on to another planet...science doesn't work here...it's the hajubaju particles in the lower troposphere negating the basic arithmetic of the situation.
Arpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21 2012, 08:05 AM   #38
scotpens
Vice Admiral
 
scotpens's Avatar
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: Biggest 'Why don't they...' in Trek

Finngle Bells wrote: View Post
The Eggnogstic wrote: View Post
Finngle Bells wrote: View Post
They weren't Humans
I suggest you re-watch the episode.
I was talking about the food. Kirk and Spock didn't do it by simply eating the food.
Well, yes, that's correct. McCoy injected Kirk and Spock with high doses of kironide, the substance in the Platonian food that produced psychokinetic powers. (Never mind how McCoy was able to synthesize large amounts of the stuff on such short notice.) But kironide and its effects were never seen or mentioned again.
__________________
“All the universe or nothingness. Which shall it be, Passworthy? Which shall it be?”
scotpens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21 2012, 11:07 PM   #39
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Biggest 'Why don't they...' in Trek

I'm going with the explanation that long-term use of kironide is out of the question simply because nobody wants to become like the Platonians. Having that power is inherently corrupting. Nobody deserves that or should have access to it. So it is intentionally ignored. Kironide has no medical value that we can see - it doesn't heal wounds or cure disease (indeed, Parmen was going to die from a simple infection).
__________________
In labor news: Longshoremen walked off the piers today. Rescue operations are continuing.
Mr. Laser Beam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22 2012, 02:18 AM   #40
datalogan
Lieutenant Commander
 
datalogan's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Biggest 'Why don't they...' in Trek

I've never held to the belief that power inherently corrupts.
datalogan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22 2012, 03:24 AM   #41
plynch
Commodore
 
plynch's Avatar
 
Location: Outer Graceland
View plynch's Twitter Profile
Re: Biggest 'Why don't they...' in Trek

Go Warp 10, become salamanders, be home, and have the Doctor reverse it. Sorry if a repeat, haven't read 'em all.
__________________
Author of Live Like Louis! Inspirational Stories from the Life of Louis Armstrong, http://livelikelouis.com
plynch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22 2012, 06:58 AM   #42
scotpens
Vice Admiral
 
scotpens's Avatar
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: Biggest 'Why don't they...' in Trek

datalogan wrote: View Post
I've never held to the belief that power inherently corrupts.
Maybe not for everybody. But for us fallible humans, it's certainly a huge temptation.
__________________
“All the universe or nothingness. Which shall it be, Passworthy? Which shall it be?”
scotpens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22 2012, 09:38 AM   #43
Arpy
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Biggest 'Why don't they...' in Trek

I've had this discussion before.

No man is impervious to temptation. We all have our breaking point. We are but mortal men in a universe far greater than us. This is not a fault, unless you think one should be as incorruptible as a Classical figure. But remember this: my Ancient Greek ancestors were no more or less human than I or any of us are. Don't base the truth of your life on the fiction of their literature.

Man's fallibility, like his mortality, may make life more difficult but like most problems, it can be dealt with.
Arpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22 2012, 06:19 PM   #44
datalogan
Lieutenant Commander
 
datalogan's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Biggest 'Why don't they...' in Trek

Arpy wrote: View Post
I've had this discussion before.

No man is impervious to temptation. We all have our breaking point. We are but mortal men in a universe far greater than us. This is not a fault, unless you think one should be as incorruptible as a Classical figure. But remember this: my Ancient Greek ancestors were no more or less human than I or any of us are. Don't base the truth of your life on the fiction of their literature.

Man's fallibility, like his mortality, may make life more difficult but like most problems, it can be dealt with.
I guess that’s sort of my point. Yes, humans have a capacity for being corrupted by power. But that doesn’t mean that it can’t be dealt with. We may be tempted to abuse, and some people may even abuse, but that doesn’t mean that the society as a whole will.

I mean, Star Trek already has some incredibly powerful stuff, most notably replicators, from which you can make almost anything. Yet, the Federation society we are presented with has not collapsed in on itself by everyone abusing the power. Although the show mostly “solves” this problem by ignoring it. We are never really told why humans don’t just live inside holdecks with their replicators and ignore the real world (which would really be a natural corruption of that power). It’s just a conceit of the show that humans have the power . . . but somehow don’t get corrupted by it.

So, if we already feel comfortable with the idea that humans have not been corrupted by the powers they already have, why can’t we also incorporate new “powers” into the universe without having to explain why the humans are not corrupted by those as well? Is telekinetics (TOS “Plato’s Stepchildren”) or super speed (TOS “Wink of an Eye”) really all that more powerful or corruptible than [almost-]all-powerful replicators?
datalogan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 22 2012, 07:06 PM   #45
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Biggest 'Why don't they...' in Trek

datalogan wrote: View Post

I guess that’s sort of my point. Yes, humans have a capacity for being corrupted by power. But that doesn’t mean that it can’t be dealt with. We may be tempted to abuse, and some people may even abuse, but that doesn’t mean that the society as a whole will.
I think what Star Trek is trying to say is that people become easily corruptible when dealing with powers they aren't ready for.

It's one thing to develop a device over the course of years and decades and then it slowly moves into the mainstream culture vs. having the power of god dropped into your lap overnight.
__________________
"I had no idea you were so... formidable. " - Anan 7 to James T. Kirk, A Taste of Armageddon
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:58 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.