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Old December 15 2012, 12:04 AM   #61
MacLeod
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
jayrath wrote: View Post
I'll save discussion of the potential merits of gun control for another day. But we have just got to do something about the culture of violence in this country.

When Pres. Kennedy was assassinated, TV shows dialed down violence a great deal, toy guns disappeared from stores. I was never even allowed to play with one or to have a G.I. Joe. The amount of gore on even network television these days sincerely alarms me.

We has a mass shooting just last week. I don't know the answers -- surely better and more available mental health care must be part of the mix -- but when will we finally be moved as a society to do something? We must refuse to accept that this sort of horrific event has become "normal" -- that we'll just murmur nice words, go back to our lives . . . and then wait for the next mass-killing.
You can boil it down to three factors imo:
1) lack of easy access to mental health services
2) unemployment/bad economy
3) easy access to guns

There is no solution to any one of these. We are just going to get bandaids like putting guards in elementary schools or arming teachers.
There are possible solutions to 1 and 2, maybe not easy and likely not popular but there are possible solutions.

But today is not the day to debate them.
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Old December 15 2012, 12:17 AM   #62
therealsb63
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Newtown, especially the Sandy Hook section, is only about a half hour ride from where I live. In some shots of the command post at the Sandy Hook Volunteer Fire station, I saw a police car from my town.

There are so many conflicting reports. The story is on almost every channel due to our proximity to New York City, so it's on all three CT network-affiliated stations as well as all major New York City stations, not to mention the national outlets such as CNN/HLN, MSNBC, FOXNews, etc.

The gunman, 20 year old Adam Lanza, is dead. His mother was the kindergarten teacher at Sandy Hook Elementary School, a K-5 facility. Many of the 18 children Lanza killed were in her class, he killed her as well. 9 adults were either killed or wounded, including Lanza.

A dead body has been found at the Lanza home in Newtown, but police have not released details yet.

Lanza's brother Ryan, age 24, was originally named as the killer, but Ryan Lanza is in police custody in Hoboken, NJ. Apparently Adam Lanza had some kind of ID with Ryan's name on it on his person. Police are now saying Ryan had nothing to do with Adam's actions.

Lt. Paul Vance of the CT State Police is well known, he's been the State Police PA Officer for many years and is a familiar face on CT television. Seeing him carried on CNN is eerie.

I posted this on FB as my thoughts on the situation:

It's simply shocking and frightening that a parent can send their child to school in the morning, never thinking they may never see that face alive again. When something so horrific happens so close to home, and you see it all over your local channels (both CT stations and NYC) it makes you realize these horrible things really can happen anywhere. We've even seen an American President cry today. Parents, hug your kids tight and never take that contact for granted.
My thoughts are with the parents of the children who lost their lives for no reason today, and my prayers are for those children's souls.
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Old December 15 2012, 12:24 AM   #63
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

This quote taken from Tumblr: "I just wish mental health care were as easy to get as, say, a gun."
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Old December 15 2012, 12:39 AM   #64
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Also today:

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/wo...,6383015.story

Today, a sick man in the United States killed 28 people with his guns.

Today, a sick man in China didn't kill 22 people with his knife.

Mark
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Old December 15 2012, 12:40 AM   #65
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

bigdaddy wrote: View Post
But the death total is...

6 Adults at the school
18 Kids at the school
2 kids at the hospital
1 adult at some place in town
Killed himself
Why can't they ever start with the last step?
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Old December 15 2012, 01:12 AM   #66
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
Don't want to make light of this horrible situation, but maybe the Mayan Calendar Crazies are coming out to play one more time before they think the end comes - nothing to lose, and all that. It honestly won't surprise me if we see more of this in the coming week.
That's also my problem/worry with all this Mayan calendar bullshit.

All rational thinking people know it's bunk and what it actually is(change of cycle/new cycle, to be succinct). My concern is that the mongos and mundanes might ACTUALLY cause shit to go down by their own hysteria.

Mass panic and all that shit.


My faith in mundanes and mongos is pretty low!!!
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Old December 15 2012, 01:17 AM   #67
Tulin
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Miss Chicken wrote: View Post
This is so tragic and so depressing.
Having visited Port Arthur a few years ago I have to say what is tragic and depressing is that the US doesn't have the brains amd back bone to do what the Australian government did back then.

But then, we wouldn't want the gun nuts to lose their "raaaahhhhts".......would we?

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Old December 15 2012, 01:20 AM   #68
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

ShamelessMcBundy wrote: View Post
This quote taken from Tumblr: "I just wish mental health care were as easy to get as, say, a gun."
That's perfect.
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Old December 15 2012, 02:16 AM   #69
Miss Chicken
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Tulin wrote: View Post
Miss Chicken wrote: View Post
This is so tragic and so depressing.
Having visited Port Arthur a few years ago I have to say what is tragic and depressing is that the US doesn't have the brains amd back bone to do what the Australian government did back then.

But then, we wouldn't want the gun nuts to lose their "raaaahhhhts".......would we?

Agreed. Since the Port Arthur Massacre in 1996 Australia has not had another such gun massacre. There was the Monash University shooting in 2002 (two killed, 5 injured, handguns used)

We had had several massacres in the 1980s and early 1990s.

Australia didn't ban all guns, only semi-automatic rifles and pump action/self-loading shotguns and, after the Monash University, magazine capacity for handguns was restricted to ten rounds maximum except for special exceptions.

Likewise New Zealand had a spate of massacres up to 1997. Though they didn't outright ban semi-automatic weapons after the Aramoana Massacre in 1990, the New Zealand government did introduce a military-style semi-automatic category for firearms and tightened gun control as a whole.
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Old December 15 2012, 02:29 AM   #70
Data Holmes
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Miss Chicken wrote: View Post
Whatever his 'motivation' was it is not going to be anything remotely justifiable.
Never said it would. Nothing justifies an act like this.

But a 20 year old from a broken or breaking family who suffers from develemental disorders and displays OCD like tendencies lashing out at his mother and the kids in her class because of a precieved jealousy that she liked them more than him, or anger that she chose her "kids" at the school over his family can be looked at logically and provide both context and understanding of the situation beyond the emotional response to the event.


jayrath wrote: View Post
I'll save discussion of the potential merits of gun control for another day. But we have just got to do something about the culture of violence in this country.

When Pres. Kennedy was assassinated, TV shows dialed down violence a great deal, toy guns disappeared from stores. I was never even allowed to play with one or to have a G.I. Joe. The amount of gore on even network television these days sincerely alarms me.

We has a mass shooting just last week. I don't know the answers -- surely better and more available mental health care must be part of the mix -- but when will we finally be moved as a society to do something? We must refuse to accept that this sort of horrific event has become "normal" -- that we'll just murmur nice words, go back to our lives . . . and then wait for the next mass-killing.
It's what we do.

ShamelessMcBundy wrote: View Post
This quote taken from Tumblr: "I just wish mental health care were as easy to get as, say, a gun."
Truth is it should be far easier, and getting treatment and having mental illness shouldn't be stigmatized.


Ar-Festivus wrote: View Post
bigdaddy wrote: View Post
But the death total is...

6 Adults at the school
18 Kids at the school
2 kids at the hospital
1 adult at some place in town
Killed himself
Why can't they ever start with the last step?
Because, in America someone else always has to pay for their slighting/problem.
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Old December 15 2012, 02:44 AM   #71
Miss Chicken
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

But a 20 year old from a broken or breaking family who suffers from develemental disorders and displays OCD like tendencies lashing out at his mother and the kids in her class because of a precieved jealousy that she liked them more than him, or anger that she chose her "kids" at the school over his family can be looked at logically and provide both context and understanding of the situation beyond the emotional response to the event.
How do you know that she choose her 'kids' over him, or are you are just pulling a theory out from your arse.

They are now saying that his mother died at the house, and that she might have worked at the school in the past as a volunteer not as a teacher.
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Old December 15 2012, 03:11 AM   #72
ElimParra
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

sidious618 wrote: View Post
ShamelessMcBundy wrote: View Post
This quote taken from Tumblr: "I just wish mental health care were as easy to get as, say, a gun."
That's perfect.
Indeed. So sad. You have to wonder to make this person snap and go kill these people.

Tulin wrote: View Post
Miss Chicken wrote: View Post
This is so tragic and so depressing.
Having visited Port Arthur a few years ago I have to say what is tragic and depressing is that the US doesn't have the brains amd back bone to do what the Australian government did back then.

But then, we wouldn't want the gun nuts to lose their "raaaahhhhts".......would we?
Agree. Seen several posts similar to this on facebook, but it's what Gifts for the Geeks said:-

Our dear American friends ,in the early 1990's we had a problem in out country with gun violence,after a spree shooting our government implemented very tight gun controls ,in the decades that have passed we have not witnessed spree shootings and our gun violence remains low . Our farmers still get to use guns,our hunters still get to enjoy their sport. The criminals have not taken over our streets and the king of England hasn't waltzed in and taken over ...we are not asking you to give up your rights ,just your toys ....no child should die 10 days before Xmas .
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Old December 15 2012, 03:14 AM   #73
Data Holmes
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Miss Chicken wrote: View Post
But a 20 year old from a broken or breaking family who suffers from develemental disorders and displays OCD like tendencies lashing out at his mother and the kids in her class because of a precieved jealousy that she liked them more than him, or anger that she chose her "kids" at the school over his family can be looked at logically and provide both context and understanding of the situation beyond the emotional response to the event.
How do you know that she choose her 'kids' over him, or are you are just pulling a theory out from your arse.
It was an example not a fact, of why im interested in the motivating factors of the shoorte. And I said he could have precieved that not that she actually did.

They are now saying that his mother died at the house, and that she might have worked at the school in the past as a volunteer not as a teacher.
Doesn't change my example above.
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Old December 15 2012, 03:23 AM   #74
Miss Chicken
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Maybe before you even begin to make suggestions about his motives you should wait until there is some official statement about the dynamics of his family. So far, most of what has been reported by the media has been wrong i.e. they got his name and age wrong (mistaking him for his brother),wrongly reported he had a child at the school, it would seem that it was wrongly reported that his mother died in her classroom, wrongly reported that his father had been found dead, and now it is being reported that his mother wasn't a teacher at all.

If we don't know for sure even the very basics about this man why should we even attempt to suggest a motive.
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Old December 15 2012, 04:03 AM   #75
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

This latest umpteenth incident has extra similarities to a horrific single-classroom shooting in late 1990s Scotland. One ''man'' murdered the teacher, killed roughly half and wounded nearly all of approximately 30 gradeschoolers, all well under 10 years of age.

Did we have at least one elementary school incident about that same time in the Midwest, pre-Columbine? Or was it a junior high in this case? I remember another female teacher and perhaps half-a-dozen kids perished. That was also pre-Columbine. The {unprintable} who massacred those at Virginia Tech was partially inspired by Columbine's Dumb and Dumber killers.

Then, more recently in this country, a ''man'' who had lost his daughter decided to shoot and kill over five Amish girls of various ages. Several of the girls actually asked to be the victims so there friends could be spared. After this horrible incident, the Amish community reached out to the killer's widow and declared he was forgiven. I'm not capable of thinking that, but the Amish set one hell of an example.
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