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Old December 22 2012, 04:41 AM   #286
Data Holmes
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

chardman wrote: View Post
NightmareB4Holmes wrote: View Post
Anyone who seriously uses the term assault weapons is both a massive ignorant fool when it comes to firearms, and buying into a political buzzword created by racists...

Ya mean like those evil librul bastards that run run "Guns Digest", "Soldier of Fortune" magazine, and the advertising campaigns of the gun manufacturers themselves? Sorry fella, but "assault weapons" was an industry term long before anyone in the anti-gun lobby or the so-called liberal media adopted it.
Assault weapons was a political term created by Hitler.
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Old December 22 2012, 04:42 AM   #287
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

And....that makes Godwin #457 for the week.
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Old December 22 2012, 04:43 AM   #288
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

NightmareB4Holmes wrote: View Post
Anyone who seriously uses the term assault weapons is both a massive ignorant fool when it comes to firearms, and buying into a political buzzword created by racists who wanted to scare white people and disarm black people.
Yes. We're racists. Don't forget socialist, and somehow nazis. You're duly winning the national debate with that brilliant tactic.

I guess your just doing what the NRA did at its conferenceless press conference today and just throwing anything out there hoping it sticks.

You could blame 20 year old video games, or Soul Train.
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Old December 22 2012, 04:46 AM   #289
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

SantaEddie74 wrote: View Post
And....that makes Godwin #457 for the week.
it's a fact.

MP 43, MP 44, and StG 44 were different designations for what was essentially the same rifle, with minor updates in production. The variety in nomenclatures resulted from the complicated bureaucracy in Nazi Germany. Developed from the Mkb 42(H) "machine carbine", the StG44 combined the characteristics of a carbine, submachine gun and automatic rifle.

StG is an abbreviation of Sturmgewehr. The name was chosen personally by Adolf Hitler for propaganda reasons and literally means "storm rifle" as in "to storm (i.e. "assault") an enemy position". After the adoption of the StG 44, the English translation "assault rifle" became the accepted designation for this type of infantry small arm.
Link.
Definition

The term assault rifle is a translation of the German word Sturmgewehr (literally "storm rifle", as in "to storm a position"). The name was coined by Adolf Hitler[3] as a new name for the Maschinenpistole 43,[nb 1] subsequently known as the Sturmgewehr 44, the firearm generally considered the first assault rifle that served to popularise the concept and form the basis for today's modern assault rifles.

The translation assault rifle gradually became the common term for similar firearms sharing the same technical definition as the StG 44. In a strict definition, a firearm must have at least the following characteristics to be considered an assault rifle:[4][5][6]

It must be an individual weapon with provision to fire from the shoulder (i.e. a buttstock);
It must be capable of selective fire;
It must have an intermediate-power cartridge: more power than a pistol but less than a standard rifle or battle rifle;
Its ammunition must be supplied from a detachable magazine rather than a feed-belt.
And it should at least have a firing range of 300*meters (1000*feet)

Rifles that meet most of these criteria, but not all, are technically not assault rifles despite frequently being considered as such. For example, semi-automatic-only rifles like the AR-15 (which the M16 rifle is based on) that share designs with assault rifles are not assault rifles, as they are not capable of switching to automatic fire and thus are not selective fire capable. Belt-fed weapons or rifles with fixed magazines are likewise not assault rifles because they do not have detachable box magazines.

The term "assault rifle" is often more loosely used for commercial or political reasons to include other types of arms, particularly arms that fall under a strict definition of the battle rifle, or semi-automatic variant of military rifles such as AR-15s.

The US Army defines assault rifles as "short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachinegun and rifle cartridges."[7]link.
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Old December 22 2012, 04:49 AM   #290
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

That's the stupidest god damned argument to anything in this thread of stupid arguments.

Congrats.
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Old December 22 2012, 04:53 AM   #291
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

You're still Godwinning by attempting to associate gun control with the National Socialist regime of the Third Reich. You're trying to tie reasonable, rational safety measures in the wake of Newtown and other massacres to one of the most bloodstained dictatorships in human history.

If we're going to pull that little stunt then it might be interesting to point out that the Second Amendment to the Constitution was written and enacted in part by slaveholding bigots who didn't think women and blacks should have the right to vote or own property.

How does that taste?
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Old December 22 2012, 04:58 AM   #292
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

And if calling it an "assault weapon" makes me a Nazi, then believing in the 2nd Amendment makes you a bigoted racist.
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Old December 22 2012, 04:59 AM   #293
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

I must be stopped before I destroy all that's good.
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Old December 22 2012, 05:03 AM   #294
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Yes, the truth was that the StG 44 wasn't for assault, it was for trying to slow down the relentless onslaught of the Soviet infantry who kept overrunning German lines. Hitler wasn't going to call it the "We are f*cked gewehr."

Also, that book is about real assault rifles, which civilians can't possess without getting an FFL that would essentially make them an arms dealer. That's why it says "military and law enforcement" on the cover. One of my caving buddies once tried to turn his AR-15 into an assault rifle, and the ATF paid him a visit and seized every gun he possessed, which was a lot.
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Old December 22 2012, 05:11 AM   #295
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

SantaEddie74 wrote: View Post
You're still Godwinning by attempting to associate gun control with the National Socialist regime of the Third Reich. You're trying to tie reasonable, rational safety measures in the wake of Newtown and other massacres to one of the most bloodstained dictatorships in human history.

If we're going to pull that little stunt then it might be interesting to point out that the Second Amendment to the Constitution was written and enacted in part by slaveholding bigots who didn't think women and blacks should have the right to vote or own property.

How does that taste?
It's ironic that Connecticut is one of the states with an "assault weapons" ban, and has no AOT law. In fact, the CT legislature voted down just such a measure earlier this year which would have made it easier for Lanza to committ her son, and not be delayed with legal red tape... Red tape that may have allowed him time to snap and murder...

Connecticut has the fifth-strictest gun laws of all 50 states, a fact that did nothing to stop Adam Lanza, the Newtown shooter. But it is one of only six states that lack an “assisted outpatient treatment” law, or AOT. Such a law allows a state to compel a mentally ill person to accept treatment if it has reason to suspect the person is in danger of doing harm to himself or others. It applies only if the person has a history of violence, incarceration, or hospitalizations resulting from problems related to mental illness.

This spring, a modified AOT law was debated in the Connecticut legislature. It would have allowed people with psychiatric problems to be medicated if without such treatment they would put themselves or others in harm’s way.

The proposal didn’t even make it out of the state senate’s Judiciary Committee after it was fiercely opposed by the ACLU and state mental-health bureaucrats. “If this went through, I think this would be a significant step backward for the state,” testified Patricia Rehmer, Connecticut’s commissioner of mental health. The Connecticut Mirror reported that “she worries that [an AOT law] would backfire, breaking down the opportunity for a respectful relationship and leading to more difficulty engaging” the mentally ill.

Since two-thirds of recent mass murderers have exhibited signs of mental illness observable to others before their crimes, we might do better to worry about the ways in which doing too little to track and treat the mentally ill can “backfire.” Properly medicated, the mentally ill on the whole are no more prone to commit violence than the rest of the population. Untreated, they can be ticking time bombs.link.
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Old December 22 2012, 05:21 AM   #296
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

SantaEddie74 wrote: View Post
You're still Godwinning by attempting to associate gun control with the National Socialist regime of the Third Reich. You're trying to tie reasonable, rational safety measures in the wake of Newtown and other massacres to one of the most bloodstained dictatorships in human history.
And Dodd had the Nazi gun control act translated into English so we could base our 1968 act on it when we started having race-riots and inner city crime started getting out of contol.

If we're going to pull that little stunt then it might be interesting to point out that the Second Amendment to the Constitution was written and enacted in part by slaveholding bigots who didn't think women and blacks should have the right to vote or own property.

How does that taste?
What's more interesting is all the Southern tap-dancing in their court rulings, arguing that the Second Amendment doesn't apply to blacks, and that free blacks can be banned from possessing any type of weapon. This happened after a few slave revolts here and abroad. Prior to those, in many Southern states, even slaves could have guns. (Why would you spend all day hunting in the rain when you have a slave that can do that for you?)

Some much later court rulings on gun control measures explicitly state that "this law was never meant to apply to whites."
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Old December 22 2012, 10:37 AM   #297
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

Semantics? Involving 'Hitler' Godwins? Really?

Call them however you want - the fact remains, semi-automatic weapons with high-capacity magazines are designed to kill human beings and little else; are constantly used for this very purpose by losers in USA due to their wide availability (which is blatantly obvious to anyone who read homicides statistics, mass shootings statistics, etc); are far more efficient at killing human beings than the other 'weapons' available to said losers.

These are obvious facts and most people are smart enough to understand them - especially when they're repeatedly pointed out to them.


Which makes some people rather disappointing as human beings:
I don't claim to be a saint or something similar - FAR from it - but I can claim with confidence that I would renounce a collecting hobby of mine if, by doing so, I could save the life of tens/hundreds/thousands of human beings.
As opposed to engaging in obvious obfuscation attempts by straw-men and semantic irrelevancies, in order to keep my toys.
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Last edited by Edit_XYZ; December 22 2012 at 11:44 AM.
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Old December 22 2012, 10:58 AM   #298
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

^Well it's quite clear from some of the comments on here, that some people place greater value on owning a gun, than human life.

After all if a ban on a single type of weapon or a total ban saved even one life, isn't that worth the price of a ban?

No one is caliming that a ban of any type would prevent an instance like this happening again, it's all about minimising the chance of such an instance occuring again.
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Old December 22 2012, 11:21 AM   #299
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

NightmareB4Holmes wrote: View Post
SantaEddie74 wrote: View Post
And....that makes Godwin #457 for the week.
it's a fact.

MP 43, MP 44, and StG 44 were different designations for what was essentially the same rifle, with minor updates in production. The variety in nomenclatures resulted from the complicated bureaucracy in Nazi Germany. Developed from the Mkb 42(H) "machine carbine", the StG44 combined the characteristics of a carbine, submachine gun and automatic rifle.

StG is an abbreviation of Sturmgewehr. The name was chosen personally by Adolf Hitler for propaganda reasons and literally means "storm rifle" as in "to storm (i.e. "assault") an enemy position". After the adoption of the StG 44, the English translation "assault rifle" became the accepted designation for this type of infantry small arm.
Link.
Definition

The term assault rifle is a translation of the German word Sturmgewehr (literally "storm rifle", as in "to storm a position"). The name was coined by Adolf Hitler[3] as a new name for the Maschinenpistole 43,[nb 1] subsequently known as the Sturmgewehr 44, the firearm generally considered the first assault rifle that served to popularise the concept and form the basis for today's modern assault rifles.

The translation assault rifle gradually became the common term for similar firearms sharing the same technical definition as the StG 44. In a strict definition, a firearm must have at least the following characteristics to be considered an assault rifle:[4][5][6]

It must be an individual weapon with provision to fire from the shoulder (i.e. a buttstock);
It must be capable of selective fire;
It must have an intermediate-power cartridge: more power than a pistol but less than a standard rifle or battle rifle;
Its ammunition must be supplied from a detachable magazine rather than a feed-belt.
And it should at least have a firing range of 300*meters (1000*feet)

Rifles that meet most of these criteria, but not all, are technically not assault rifles despite frequently being considered as such. For example, semi-automatic-only rifles like the AR-15 (which the M16 rifle is based on) that share designs with assault rifles are not assault rifles, as they are not capable of switching to automatic fire and thus are not selective fire capable. Belt-fed weapons or rifles with fixed magazines are likewise not assault rifles because they do not have detachable box magazines.

The term "assault rifle" is often more loosely used for commercial or political reasons to include other types of arms, particularly arms that fall under a strict definition of the battle rifle, or semi-automatic variant of military rifles such as AR-15s.

The US Army defines assault rifles as "short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachinegun and rifle cartridges."[7]link.
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Old December 22 2012, 05:04 PM   #300
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Re: MASSIVE Elementary School Shooting in CT *12-24 Maybe be dead

The problem is that if you put guards in schools, the killers go to malls, you put guards is malls, the killers go to theaters, or political rallys, etc, etc. They're always going to "hit us where we ain't".

Having said that, what's wrong with guards in schools, in body armor, armed with tazers and trank guns. Hit an innocent bystander, nobody dies.

As for the "What is an assault weapon?" Aside from "any gun aimed at you", it can not be defined by stock barrel, clip or any cosmetic consideration, it must be defined by capability.

As follows:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxQNYPYFq1c
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