RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,705
Posts: 5,431,757
Members: 24,834
Currently online: 443
Newest member: kamkaran


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 28 2013, 11:52 PM   #196
TheGoodNews
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

Oh my Buddha, let's hope so.
Well, it's not like the French didn't try during the May/June 1968 Wildcat Strike only to end up with a 10% increase in pay, an extra week of vacation time and a slight decrease in the work week. But it's a start, at least.

TheGoodNews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 13 2013, 12:31 AM   #197
robau
Lieutenant Commander
 
robau's Avatar
 
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

The money thing is an endlessly fascinating and debatable topic. It occurs to me that there is simply a private currency system unsanctioned by the federation. The federation, as in, the government entity based on earth, doesn't believe in currency based economics. BUT...the bar where Kirk got his ass kicked does. As did anyone who wanted that establishment's brand of alcohol. Same with those cargo ships.

Kinda like bitcoin I guess. Federation citizens are free to trade in whatever if they wish, but the federation itself will have absolutely nothing to do with it. Not even to regulate it, as it's mere existence is contrary to official doctrine.
robau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 13 2013, 12:48 AM   #198
Chrisisall
Commodore
 
Chrisisall's Avatar
 
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

I like that!
Chrisisall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 13 2013, 01:10 AM   #199
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

Certainly is an interesting idea.


__________________
.
It's easy to support someones beliefs if they are identical to your own.
Tolerating beliefs that you don't personal embrace, or even fully understand, is harder.
T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1 2013, 12:43 AM   #200
TheGoodNews
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

The money thing is an endlessly fascinating and debatable topic. It occurs to me that there is simply a private currency system unsanctioned by the federation. The federation, as in, the government entity based on earth, doesn't believe in currency based economics. BUT...the bar where Kirk got his ass kicked does. As did anyone who wanted that establishment's brand of alcohol. Same with those cargo ships.

Kinda like bitcoin I guess. Federation citizens are free to trade in whatever if they wish, but the federation itself will have absolutely nothing to do with it. Not even to regulate it, as it's mere existence is contrary to official doctrine.
By far the most intriguing explanation yet. Thanks, Robau.

"The Culture didn't use money, as such. But it also didn't want to be too conspicuously extravagant with matter and energy either. (So inelegant to be wasteful)." The Player of Games by Iain Banks.

"I repeat: from the standpoint of social justice, money should be abolished, and libertarian communism is infinitely superior to capitalism...." Dr. Jose Maria Pueyo - The Anarchist Collectives: Workers' Self-Management in the Spanish Revolution 1936-1939 by Sam Dolgoff.
TheGoodNews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 25 2013, 11:52 PM   #201
TheGoodNews
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

Hey, did anyone else notice that in Into Darkness neither Pike nor Kirk paid for their drinks when they left the bar?

"Are you not afraid," I asked, "that unlimited quantities of free wine will lead to excessive drinking?"
"By no means. No one gets drunk here. We have been living under this system for a year, and everyone is satisfied...." -- The Anarchist Collectives by Sam Dolgoff.
TheGoodNews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 26 2013, 01:32 AM   #202
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

TheGoodNews wrote: View Post
Hey, did anyone else notice that in Into Darkness neither Pike nor Kirk paid for their drinks when they left the bar?
They were identified through bio-metrics, and the price of the drinks were deducted from their accounts.

T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 26 2013, 01:44 AM   #203
Hando
Lieutenant Commander
 
Hando's Avatar
 
Send a message via ICQ to Hando Send a message via AIM to Hando Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Hando Send a message via Yahoo to Hando
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
TheGoodNews wrote: View Post
Hey, did anyone else notice that in Into Darkness neither Pike nor Kirk paid for their drinks when they left the bar?
They were identified through bio-metrics, and the price of the drinks were deducted from their accounts.

Or they drink on the tab.
Hando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 31 2013, 08:00 PM   #204
TheGoodNews
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

Or they drink on the tab.
Nothing wrong with tabs. They don't presume the existence of money, though.

"Credit systems, tabs, even expense accounts, all existed long before cash. These things are as old as civilization itself." David Graeber - Debt: The first 5,000 Years.
TheGoodNews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 31 2013, 08:11 PM   #205
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

TheGoodNews wrote: View Post
Nothing wrong with tabs. They don't presume the existence of money
Yeah, they kind of do.

They certainly presume eventual payment of some kind, maybe not in cash, but yes payment. Running up a tab means the samething as running up a bill.


Tab: account, invoice, statement, bill.

__________________
.
It's easy to support someones beliefs if they are identical to your own.
Tolerating beliefs that you don't personal embrace, or even fully understand, is harder.
T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 31 2013, 08:57 PM   #206
Faria
Lieutenant
 
Location: Padova
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

it doesn't work
Faria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 31 2013, 10:19 PM   #207
TheGoodNews
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
TheGoodNews wrote: View Post
Nothing wrong with tabs. They don't presume the existence of money
Yeah, they kind of do.

They certainly presume eventual payment of some kind, maybe not in cash, but yes payment. Running up a tab means the samething as running up a bill.


Tab: account, invoice, statement, bill.

But still no money. There maybe "debt" of some kind, defined in some cultural or social way, but no debt-tokens nor medium of exchange as we currently understand it.
TheGoodNews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1 2013, 07:24 AM   #208
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

TheGoodNews wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
TheGoodNews wrote: View Post
... tabs.
Tab
But still no money. There maybe "debt" of some kind, defined in some cultural or social way, but no debt-tokens nor medium of exchange as we currently understand it.
Yes, it's still money. Regardless of the form it takes. If you incur a debt (i.e. drinks in a bar), and you have preformed a action or deed that result in you possessing compensation for that action, which you use to cancel the debt (drinks), sorry thegoodnews, that is money.

If you do social work, and this enables you obtain two drinks, and somewhere there is a accounting of the amount of social work verse the number of drinks ... that's money.

Even if you're directly paid in alcohol, you're still receiving compensation for your labors.

__________________
.
It's easy to support someones beliefs if they are identical to your own.
Tolerating beliefs that you don't personal embrace, or even fully understand, is harder.
T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4 2013, 12:09 AM   #209
TheGoodNews
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

So they're being paid to drink rather than paying or did they pay it forward? Which is the inverse of them having to pay for what they consumed. What you're describing is very much like old school gift economics which historically preceded the monetary system. Ask David Graeber: "In fact our standard account of monetary history is precisely backwards. We did not begin with barter, discover money and then eventually develop credit systems. It happened precisely the other way around." Debt: the First 5,000 Years by David Graeber

As most anthropologists now conclude the Gift Economy was the ancient standard before the monetary system appeared, and in many historical cases was preferred. So there is still a difference. For example:

"Money is hereby abolished and libertarian communism is proclaimed in this village....The castle has been turned into a warehouse and supply centre. Everyone brings what they can and takes what they need. There is amazement and delight on the faces of women who help themselves to necessary commodities without paying." The Story of the Iron Column: Militant Anarchism in the Spanish Civil War by Abel Paz.

By your reasoning T'Girl, the items brought to the castle constitute a form of money or payment even though items were taken without "paying?"
TheGoodNews is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:56 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.