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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old December 13 2012, 02:36 AM   #61
The Wormhole
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Prancer the Sith wrote: View Post
I don't think TUC was made for "everyone", and neither was FC. ST IV definitely WAS, though. Even more so than ST09. And it still remains my favorite.
First Contact was totally meant for non-fans as evidenced by how far they went completely spelling things out. Take for example Picard's log near the beginning where he actually says "the Borg, our most feared enemy." Anyone in universe listening to the log would know who the Borg are so there's no need to describe them as "our most feared enemy." It's there for the benefit of an audience who doesn't know who the Borg are.

Likewise, after the Borg succeed at altering the timeline, Picard takes time to explain (in-movie to himself, apparentally) that they must follow the Borg back and prevent them from changing history before actually giving the order to go through the temporal vortex. This makes no sense in-universe, wasting time talking to yourself about what needs to be done instead of giving the order to take care of business. But it does make sense if there's an audience that this needs to be explained to.

There are other examples, the Enterprise is referred to as the Enterprise E more often in this movie than the Enterprise D was referred to as that in the entire seven year run of TNG. Hell, Lily's purpose on board the Enterprise was to give non-fans someone to relate two. But the above two are the ones that really grate on me.
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Old December 13 2012, 04:39 AM   #62
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Everybody chill a moment. Nick Meyer said the same thing about TWOK, so this isn't the first time a ST director has uttered these words.

However, J.J. does need to be careful not to alienate the fan base. Right now we are all this franchise has and if they plan on bringing new fans on board they will need us to start the chatter to bring them in.
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Old December 13 2012, 04:41 AM   #63
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

They already have tens of millions of people - non-Trek fans - who went to see the last Abrams Star Trek. They're not relying on Star Trek fans to talk this thing up.

Nor is there much chance of alienating the vast majority of people who call themselves fans, who are not obsessing and arguing over a director's interview this evening.
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Old December 13 2012, 04:56 AM   #64
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

The fan-base endured THIS dressing down.
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Old December 13 2012, 05:48 AM   #65
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Anji wrote: View Post
However, J.J. does need to be careful not to alienate the fan base.
I don't think there's much danger of that happening - not really.
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Old December 13 2012, 06:29 AM   #66
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Prancer the Sith wrote: View Post
I said BORDERLINE disrespectful, and that was mainly my irritation speaking. There's a difference between "not JUST for fans", and "not for fans". The fact that this movie is meant for general audiences doesn't bother me one bit. What bothers me is Abrams repeating the same shit over and over again, like it's some kind of a mantra, devised to rid the franchise of the whole "uncool" syfy basement-fanboy nerd stigma.
Not to point out the obvious, but most people in the mainstream used to think of Trek fans as basement fanboy nerds. I think they're still trying to beat that drum to make sure people know it hasn't returned to being basement fanboy crap.

You like something people used to (and still do, to be honest) consider weird/dorky/nerdy. Own it!

What I find the most ridiculous is how many fans would rather watch another 25 seasons of Voyager, with the same old rehashed done-to-death shitty plots, than have it's precious Star Trek go a little mainstream.
Amen. Preaching to the choir. Trek was circling the drain to obscurity. Mainstreaming it saved it from - if not permanent death - at least a 20 year moratorium.
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Old December 13 2012, 06:34 AM   #67
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

As long as he keeps making kick-ass movies, he can say whatever he likes and I'll be happy.
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Old December 13 2012, 07:31 AM   #68
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Anji wrote: View Post
Everybody chill a moment. Nick Meyer said the same thing about TWOK, so this isn't the first time a ST director has uttered these words.
However, it was also heavily reported at the time that Meyer had done the necessary research, watching all of the episodes (and IIRC, it was Meyer who suggested making a sequel to "Space Seed" in the first place).

There's been no indication that Abrams has done an equivalent amount of research on the show. There's no need for him to watch TNG, DS9, etc., so long as he's making movies featuring the TOS crew, but familiarity with the events of the universe he's rebooting would seem to be important.

Now, I'm not saying he definitely hasn't watched all of the episodes -- and I know that Orci and Kurtzman definitely have, and from what I understand they could probably quote large chunks of dialogue -- but if Abrams has done this level of research, it hasn't been reported. And I think that's what makes his "I'm not a Star Trek fan" quote rankle the fanbase so.
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Old December 13 2012, 07:46 AM   #69
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

TorontoTrekker wrote: View Post
Anji wrote: View Post
Everybody chill a moment. Nick Meyer said the same thing about TWOK, so this isn't the first time a ST director has uttered these words.
However, it was also heavily reported at the time that Meyer had done the necessary research, watching all of the episodes (and IIRC, it was Meyer who suggested making a sequel to "Space Seed" in the first place).

There's been no indication that Abrams has done an equivalent amount of research on the show. There's no need for him to watch TNG, DS9, etc., so long as he's making movies featuring the TOS crew, but familiarity with the events of the universe he's rebooting would seem to be important.

Now, I'm not saying he definitely hasn't watched all of the episodes -- and I know that Orci and Kurtzman definitely have, and from what I understand they could probably quote large chunks of dialogue -- but if Abrams has done this level of research, it hasn't been reported. And I think that's what makes his "I'm not a Star Trek fan" quote rankle the fanbase so.
I thought it was Bennett who went through all the episodes and picked out Khan from Space Seed as the villain.

Frankly I don't see watching all of TOS is needed to helm a Star Trek film. This quote by Meyer from the MA article on TWOK seems to support that:

Nick Meyer wrote:
"I had the haziest notion of what Star Trek was, because I didn't really watch the show on television. I finally latched on to the idea that Captain Kirk and friends were really an outer-space series of novels that I had loved as a kid, by C.S. Forrester, called 'Captain Horatio Hornblower'. So I said, 'OK, this is 'Hornblower' in outer space; I've got it.' When I wrote the script in 12 days it was very, very, very Navy, or, as my late wife used to say, 'Nautical but nice.'"
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Old December 13 2012, 10:58 AM   #70
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Santa Kang wrote: View Post
Nick Meyer wrote:
"I had the haziest notion of what Star Trek was, because I didn't really watch the show on television. I finally latched on to the idea that Captain Kirk and friends were really an outer-space series of novels that I had loved as a kid, by C.S. Forrester, called 'Captain Horatio Hornblower'. So I said, 'OK, this is 'Hornblower' in outer space; I've got it.' When I wrote the script in 12 days it was very, very, very Navy, or, as my late wife used to say, 'Nautical but nice.'"
So basically, Nicholas Meyer got it right from the get go.
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Old December 13 2012, 11:42 AM   #71
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Anji wrote: View Post
Everybody chill a moment. Nick Meyer said the same thing about TWOK, so this isn't the first time a ST director has uttered these words.
And J.J. nailed the 2009 movie as a result.

However, J.J. does need to be careful not to alienate the fan base. Right now we are all this franchise has and if they plan on bringing new fans on board they will need us to start the chatter to bring them in.
Nah. Half the base could scream bloody murder, but as long as the average schmoe likes it, the movie would do very well. They don't need the Star Trek fanbase, even though it's obvious they care about it. The kind of fans who sit at home and cry in anguish that their years of carefully cultivated canon knowledge is no longer needed can stay home out of vengeful spite, and it won't affect the box office on any appreciable level. They simply do not matter anymore, and they never did.
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Old December 13 2012, 11:52 AM   #72
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Santa Hooves wrote: View Post
and they never did.
Up until this part, you were actually spot on.
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Old December 13 2012, 11:59 AM   #73
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Prancer the Sith wrote: View Post
Santa Hooves wrote: View Post
and they never did.
Up until this part, you were actually spot on.
No, I'm still right. The hardcore, anally retentive fans are and were never needed. The casual fan is more than enough to make a movie successful, as long as the story is more appealing to the casual fan.
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Old December 13 2012, 01:32 PM   #74
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Santa Hooves wrote: View Post
No, I'm still right. The hardcore, anally retentive fans are and were never needed.
And what's that, like, 3% of the fan base? I misread your post, I thought you were taking about fans in general (sorry). Canon jihadists and such are mostly just pain in the ass. They rarely enjoy anything, and just want to ruin it for the rest of us.
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Old December 13 2012, 03:04 PM   #75
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Based on the evidence so far, Abrams has done all the "research" he needs to.

No, Paramount doesn't need the kinds of folks - a real minority of fans, BTW - who are looking to be offended by interviews like this one. They're not needed at all.
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