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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old December 26 2012, 04:26 PM   #151
DalekJim
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
If people are too thick to enjoy a proper Star Trek movie then don't cater to them by giving them something else and slapping the Star Trek name on it. It's just alienated the fans.
I guess, since I wasn't alienated, I'm not a true fan. All those years watching the shows, the movies, buying the videos and DVDs and novels... all for nothing.

But it's okay I'm too thick to realize. Phew!
Well, being unable to understand my simple post doesn't help your claim for intelligence .

You're obviously not too thick to understand Star Trek if you're a fan of the pre-Abrams stuff.
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Old December 26 2012, 04:36 PM   #152
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

This is why Trek 09 was successful when the TNG movies bombed. The TNG movies were too much of a niche market, only appealing to die hard TNG fans.
TNG movies bombed because they were basically just mediocre TV episodes, that accidentally made their way to the big screens. Written by people who lost their "mojo" years ago, directed by people who didn't care enough, produced on a budget ridiculously low for today's standards.

It's exactly why ENT crashed and burned as well.[/QUOTE]

Yes, The TNG movie mostly failed except for First Contact. Now that was a proper TNG/ST movie.

The one before was really disappointing and there was really no reason Kirk was required to be in it.

ST9 was in my book a two part TNG episode that possible was a script sitting around from season 7.

The last one was just G-d awful from the story, directing, editing.

The last two TNG movies and the remaining season of Voyager had started the process of killing trek.

Then Enterprise is when the writers behind the show really lost the mojo.

Other then Season three with Xindi arc all before were inconsistent writing. There were a few gems here and there and it was not until season four that the show began to see promise but then was canceled.

I myself really enjoyed ST09 and look forward to the next incarnation. I am die hard fan but not so narrow minded that I can enjoy be open to enjoying the new trek.

We should all be happy that ST09 was a success otherwise there could have been no new trek at all.

Or sometime down the road a complete re-image we Spoke was to be a woman and other drastic changes.... (New BSG)
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Old December 26 2012, 04:44 PM   #153
DalekJim
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Jar Jar Trek 2009 did well because it had a HUGE marketing push. Nemesis (Which is only marginally better), bombed because only us even knew it was out.

I wouldn't equate film quality with box office success. It's all about marketing. Abrams is a master of self-publicity.
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Old December 26 2012, 05:07 PM   #154
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Trek 2009 did well because people who saw it liked it and recommended it.

Nemesis did poorly because people who saw it, in the main, didn't think much of it.

It is that simple.

oldTrek ended because it deserved to end; the Franchise earned that retirement by steadily and predictably declining viewership over a decade.
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Old December 26 2012, 05:07 PM   #155
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

I saw Nemeses on opening day and the theater was empty. The review were awful and it very disappointing.

Before the movie was released the script was leaked to the internet and it included all types of comments like "this scene was the same why Ming was killed in Flash Gordon" or how this scene was the same from the last movie... and so on.

Or this part went against the prime directive or how is there always in movies a bottom less pit that the bad guys fall into. The Troi mind rape was the same from ST6.

Then sitting watching the movie on opening night it was same as the leaked script and Stuart Byrd as director was a bad choice and the it was truly a bad movie.

It also did not help that the budget was cut more then once and Paramount turned a good possible premise into a bomb.

Even when Worf is asked when the fleet will arrive to support the Enterprise with stopping the Scimitar?
His reply is not until Tuesday almost the same like Capt. Harriom states in Generations regarding the tractorbeam.

It also did not help that John Logan and Brent Spinner wrote the story it was just bad trek.
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Old December 26 2012, 05:10 PM   #156
DalekJim
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Trek 2009 did well because people who saw it liked it and recommended it.

Nemesis did poorly because people who saw it, in the main, didn't think much of it.

It is that simple.
What? Not really. By that point people have already bought their ticket so quality is meaningless, it's all about marketing. Unless you think Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen earned more than Blade Runner because it's a better film? Wait, don't even answer that.


And I'm far from alone in thinking Abrams' Trek is poor. It's really split the fandom. Every Trekkie on the videogame forum I go on thinks it's terrible and shat on the legacy.

Nighthawk wrote: View Post
It also did not help that John Logan and Brent Spinner wrote the story it was just bad trek.
Nemesis is better Star Trek than JJ-Trek and Shinzon is a far superior villain to Nero. Both are stupid action movies though and along with Generations form the worst movies of the franchise.
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Old December 26 2012, 05:34 PM   #157
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

DalekJim wrote: View Post
What? Not really. By that point people have already bought their ticket so quality is meaningless, it's all about marketing. Unless you think Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen earned more than Blade Runner because it's a better film? Wait, don't even answer that.
Yet the DVD sold 7 million copies, with Bluray sales on top of that. If nobody liked it at the cinema, they definitely wouldn't have paid to own it.
And I'm far from alone in thinking Abrams' Trek is poor. It's really split the fandom. Every Trekkie on the videogame forum I go on thinks it's terrible and shat on the legacy.
Vocal minority
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Old December 26 2012, 05:35 PM   #158
The Wormhole
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Santa's Balls wrote: View Post
Prancer the Sith wrote: View Post
"This movie was not made for 'Star Trek' fans; it was made for movie fans.
Someone should tell this asshole to stop repeating that shit like a braindead parrot. It's annoying, and borderline disrespectful.
I applaud him for saying it. Some Trek fans need a swift kick in the nuts and to wake up and smell reality.
Okay, but we all got the point during the couple dozen times Abrams said that about Trek XI. Does he really need to keep repeating that? Even I eventually gave up my "Learning to count, Abrams style" avatar.

DalekJim wrote: View Post
I have no idea how somebody could look at The Cage, then look at the Abrams reboot and not notice a SERIOUS decline in intelligent storytelling.
Although you do make some valid points, using The Cage as the benchmark Trek should aspire to probably isn't a good idea. Don't get me wrong, I love The Cage, but one has to remember it was rejected for being too cerebral. TOS is basically dumbed down Trek, out of necessity. I agree that TOS writers had a lot more talent and imagination than Abrams and his minions, but if the capabiliies had existed in the 1960s, TOS would basically be CG and splosions. It would have to be to air on NBC.
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Old December 26 2012, 05:49 PM   #159
DalekJim
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote:
Vocal minority
Correct minority . And we can't be that much of a minority if the cast and crew feel the need to randomly snipe at us in interviews.

I REALLY want to love the next move. The first 9 minutes sound like great, fun TOS adventure. It's this bland Nolan Batman stuff with Cumberbatch that looks boring to me. Yet for some reason everybody on here is jizzing over it?

"I want my revenge bwahahaha!"

We had this in the previous two movies. And Nero is my most hated character in Trek history so this makes me nervous.

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Although you do make some valid points, using The Cage as the benchmark Trek should aspire to probably isn't a good idea. Don't get me wrong, I love The Cage, but one has to remember it was rejected for being too cerebral. TOS is basically dumbed down Trek, out of necessity. I agree that TOS writers had a lot more talent and imagination than Abrams and his minions, but if the capabiliies had existed in the 1960s, TOS would basically be CG and splosions. It would have to be to air on NBC.
I actually agree with every word of this. It's that "light entertainment" aspect of TOS that bothers me despite it being one of my fave things ever made by mankind. Still, at least episodes like The Trouble With Tribbles could be un-cerebral yet still engaging, exciting and genuinely funny.
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Old December 26 2012, 05:51 PM   #160
Franklin
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Santa's Balls wrote: View Post
Prancer the Sith wrote: View Post
Someone should tell this asshole to stop repeating that shit like a braindead parrot. It's annoying, and borderline disrespectful.
I applaud him for saying it. Some Trek fans need a swift kick in the nuts and to wake up and smell reality.
Okay, but we all got the point during the couple dozen times Abrams said that about Trek XI. Does he really need to keep repeating that? Even I eventually gave up my "Learning to count, Abrams style" avatar.

DalekJim wrote: View Post
I have no idea how somebody could look at The Cage, then look at the Abrams reboot and not notice a SERIOUS decline in intelligent storytelling.
Although you do make some valid points, using The Cage as the benchmark Trek should aspire to probably isn't a good idea. Don't get me wrong, I love The Cage, but one has to remember it was rejected for being too cerebral. TOS is basically dumbed down Trek, out of necessity. I agree that TOS writers had a lot more talent and imagination than Abrams and his minions, but if the capabiliies had existed in the 1960s, TOS would basically be CG and splosions. It would have to be to air on NBC.
It wasn't so much that "The Cage" was too cerebral (intelligent TV did exist in the 1960s), as NBC said it was short on action for a TV show that promised action and adventure. After all, Roddenberry promised "Wagon Train" to the stars, not another version of "The Twilight Zone". I don't think they actually dumbed things down for WNMHGB, for example. Certainly, the best of TOS wasn't dumbed down, either.

That said, it is no more fair to cherry-pick and compare "The Cage" to ST09 and conclude ST09 is crap than it is to compare ST09 to "The Way to Eden", "The Spectre of the Gun", "The Savage Curtain", "The Enemy Within", "And the Children Shall Lead", and God forbid, "Spock's Brain" and conclude it's genius.
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Old December 26 2012, 05:54 PM   #161
DalekJim
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

Hey, The Enemy Within is a great episode! Apart from the inappropriate joke at the end.

Spock: You nearly got raped! Ha.
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Old December 26 2012, 06:05 PM   #162
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
And I'm far from alone in thinking Abrams' Trek is poor. It's really split the fandom. Every Trekkie on the videogame forum I go on thinks it's terrible and shat on the legacy.
Vocal minority
Every new version of Star Trek has "split the fandom." As long as the new thing is successful - like TNG, or Abrams's movies - it doesn't matter. The complainers eventually get tired of complaining and go away. After a while, some of them get into the new thing.

In 1986-89 you couldn't throw a stick in the hallway of a Trek convention without hitting some goober wearing a "Trek Classic - Who Needs Another Generation?" teeshirt.

And never mind the squealing that went on, on usenet and Compuserve. Paramount clearly didn't know what they were doing, alienating the folks who'd written letters to keep TOS on the air.

That a few vocal trekkies on the Internet don't like the new movies. They're on the wrong side of history, as usual.
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Old December 26 2012, 06:10 PM   #163
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

DalekJim wrote: View Post
I have no idea how somebody could look at The Cage, then look at the Abrams reboot and not notice a SERIOUS decline in intelligent storytelling.
There's a huge decline in intelligent storytelling between "The Cage" and "Where No Man Has Gone Before."

Which saved Star Trek.
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Old December 26 2012, 06:11 PM   #164
The Wormhole
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

DalekJim wrote: View Post
I actually agree with every word of this. It's that "light entertainment" aspect of TOS that bothers me despite it being one of my fave things ever made by mankind. Still, at least episodes like The Trouble With Tribbles could be un-cerebral yet still engaging, exciting and genuinely funny.
The "light entertainment" aspect of it is probably why it's still one of the most popular TV shows of all time. Remember, The Trouble with Tribbles is considered one of the (if not The) most popular episodes of TOS.
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Old December 26 2012, 06:12 PM   #165
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: New JJ Abrams interview

DalekJim wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote:
Vocal minority
Correct minority . And we can't be that much of a minority if the cast and crew feel the need to randomly snipe at us in interviews.
Saying a film isn't just for a clique of uberfans isn't sniping. Season four of Enterprise was for Star Trek fans. Without a grasp of the other series, not much made sense. The majority of Trek is as much for everyone as Into Darkness.

I REALLY want to love the next move. The first 9 minutes sound like great, fun TOS adventure. It's this bland Nolan Batman stuff with Cumberbatch that looks boring to me. Yet for some reason everybody on here is jizzing over it?

"I want my revenge bwahahaha!"

We had this in the previous two movies. And Nero is my most hated character in Trek history so this makes me nervous.
Watch BBC's Sherlock and see what an amazing actor Benedict Cumberbatch is.

Nero was a thug with an invincible ship and a grudge against Spock. Harrison's a homegrown terrorist with a grudge against.... ? Earth? Qo'nos? Kirk? We don't even know that yet.
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