RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,232
Posts: 5,405,989
Members: 24,762
Currently online: 644
Newest member: PaulHicks

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Time’s Orphan
By: Michelle on Aug 30

September-October Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Lee Passes
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Trek Merchandise Sale
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek #39 Villain Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Trek Big Bang Figures
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 12 2012, 12:55 AM   #871
OneBuckFilms
Fleet Captain
 
OneBuckFilms's Avatar
 
Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

Actually, there is strong precedent in Canon.

Voyager had no issues with Fluidic Space.

And the Enterprise in The Immunity Syndrome was essentially swimming inside a giant amoeba, certainly a liquid environment roughly analogous to water.

The functioning within a 1G environment is slightly more problematic, until you realize that a starship is travelling at warp velocities, and has survived close proximity to far more intense gravitationally induced stresses, to the point of surviving time travel.
OneBuckFilms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2012, 01:03 AM   #872
Mach5
Rear Admiral
 
Mach5's Avatar
 
Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

OneBuckFilms wrote: View Post
Actually, there is strong precedent in Canon.

Voyager had no issues with Fluidic Space.
I pointed that out myself a few days ago. The thing is, if Voyager, or the Defiant, or any of the prime universe ships had been submerged in one of the old movies or shows, no one would have said anything. The main issue isn't with the actual submerging, it's with the "reboot". Always has been.
__________________
"Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence, it will fade away as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines."
― Bertrand Russell
Mach5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2012, 01:08 AM   #873
Vektor
Rear Admiral
 
Vektor's Avatar
 
Location: Spokane, WA, USA
Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

SantaEddie74 wrote: View Post
Again, who knows if it'll ever happen but Enterprise is now the only series that exists in both the Prime and Abrams timelines so the history is shared by both.
Actually, we don't know that for sure. Everyone assumes that the timelines diverged with Nero's incursion from the future but there could have been multiple divergences before then. For example, one of my own self-amusing pet theories is that what were seeing in the NuTrek universe is actually our timeline in which the Eugenics Wars never happened, at least not in the 1990s, and there was no Third World War as such, either because a temporal incursion prevented them from happening or because they were caused by a temporal incursion in the first place. It could explain why so many things are different in the NuTrek timeline and why technology is more advanced, because they never had to recover from that massive devastation.
__________________
www.vektorvisual.com
Vektor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2012, 01:09 AM   #874
Franklin
Rear Admiral
 
Location: In the bleachers
Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
Franklin wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I didn't have a problem with the Holoship going underwater, and all Federation ships have nigh-on the same capabilities.
I have less of a problem with it than a Klingon bird of prey floating in TVH.
It wasn't floating, it was sinking.
Well, true. It was taking on water and sinking, but it did stay afloat far longer than should've made sense. Then again, we can't have our heroes drown.
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain
Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2012, 01:15 AM   #875
cooleddie74
Fleet Admiral
 
cooleddie74's Avatar
 
Location: The Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
View cooleddie74's Twitter Profile
Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

Vektor wrote: View Post
SantaEddie74 wrote: View Post
Again, who knows if it'll ever happen but Enterprise is now the only series that exists in both the Prime and Abrams timelines so the history is shared by both.
Actually, we don't know that for sure. Everyone assumes that the timelines diverged with Nero's incursion from the future but there could have been multiple divergences before then. For example, one of my own self-amusing pet theories is that what were seeing in the NuTrek universe is actually our timeline in which the Eugenics Wars never happened, at least not in the 1990s, and there was no Third World War as such, either because a temporal incursion prevented them from happening or because they were caused by a temporal incursion in the first place. It could explain why so many things are different in the NuTrek timeline and why technology is more advanced, because they never had to recover from that massive devastation.
Great. Now I'm going to have crushing migraines all night pondering that.

Thanks. Thanks a lot.

It's not a theory I buy in the slightest, but it is creative.
__________________
Human instinct is pretty strong. You can't expect us to change overnight.

-Captain Jonathan Archer, 2151
cooleddie74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2012, 01:21 AM   #876
Xaios
Lieutenant Commander
 
Xaios's Avatar
 
Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

OneBuckFilms wrote: View Post
Actually, there is strong precedent in Canon.

Voyager had no issues with Fluidic Space.

And the Enterprise in The Immunity Syndrome was essentially swimming inside a giant amoeba, certainly a liquid environment roughly analogous to water.

The functioning within a 1G environment is slightly more problematic, until you realize that a starship is travelling at warp velocities, and has survived close proximity to far more intense gravitationally induced stresses, to the point of surviving time travel.
Can't really use Fluidic Space as an example, because we really have no idea of the pressure and viscosity of that particular fluid.

But it probably still wouldn't have any trouble, at least not if it moved slowly. Any ship that can survive the streses of a) skirting the event horizon of a black hole and b) getting blasted out of said black hole by a massive antimatter explosion probably isn't going to have any issues with water pressure... so long as it doesn't dive very far.

Does anyone know if NASA uses (or rather, used) submersion tests in order to determine the structural integrity of things like shuttles and Apollo capsules?
Xaios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2012, 01:22 AM   #877
Vektor
Rear Admiral
 
Vektor's Avatar
 
Location: Spokane, WA, USA
Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

SantaEddie74 wrote: View Post
Great. Now I'm going to have crushing migraines all night pondering that.
My work here is done.
__________________
www.vektorvisual.com
Vektor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2012, 01:58 AM   #878
OneBuckFilms
Fleet Captain
 
OneBuckFilms's Avatar
 
Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

SantaEddie74 wrote: View Post
Vektor wrote: View Post
SantaEddie74 wrote: View Post
Again, who knows if it'll ever happen but Enterprise is now the only series that exists in both the Prime and Abrams timelines so the history is shared by both.
Actually, we don't know that for sure. Everyone assumes that the timelines diverged with Nero's incursion from the future but there could have been multiple divergences before then. For example, one of my own self-amusing pet theories is that what were seeing in the NuTrek universe is actually our timeline in which the Eugenics Wars never happened, at least not in the 1990s, and there was no Third World War as such, either because a temporal incursion prevented them from happening or because they were caused by a temporal incursion in the first place. It could explain why so many things are different in the NuTrek timeline and why technology is more advanced, because they never had to recover from that massive devastation.
Great. Now I'm going to have crushing migraines all night pondering that.

Thanks. Thanks a lot.

It's not a theory I buy in the slightest, but it is creative.
Not sure as to how/why technology would be more advanced in the Alternate Reality, but I defer to writer/producer intent regarding the Alternate Reality splitting of Stardate 2233.04.
OneBuckFilms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2012, 02:04 AM   #879
Trekker4747
Fleet Admiral
 
Trekker4747's Avatar
 
Location: Kansas City
Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Now, am i the only one who thinks a starship underwater slowly ascending is damn cool!?
I think it's utter absurd for a number reasons but I digress.
They copied Star Trek: Insurrection. Did anyone care then? Or is hiding a village-sized holoship from the natives underwater somehow okay, but doing the same with the Enterprise not?
Considering there's a pretty big size difference between the two... Which is my problem, the Enterprise is huge, even the TOS Kirk Enterprise/Movie Enterprise. IIRC schematic put the Abrams Enterprise as bigger than the -D. Which is, scientifically speaking, 'Utterly Mother Fucking Huge!"

Nor is it the most aerodynamic shape, but the Enterprise should barely be able to not fall apart under its own weight in an atmosphere, let alone be underwater.
__________________
Out of hope.
Trekker4747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2012, 02:04 AM   #880
cooleddie74
Fleet Admiral
 
cooleddie74's Avatar
 
Location: The Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
View cooleddie74's Twitter Profile
Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

That's the way I look at the new timeline. Before the singularity that the Narada emerges from begins forming we're in the Prime timeline (Spock's birth in the deleted scenes of Trek '09 also happens in the original timeline on stardate 2230.06)....the moment the singularity begins to appear we're in the Abrams timeline. Everything diverges from that moment.

That means that the uniforms seen on the Kelvin crew are what the Prime timeline uniforms also looked like until at least 2233 and George Kirk was an officer aboard the ship in both timelines.
__________________
Human instinct is pretty strong. You can't expect us to change overnight.

-Captain Jonathan Archer, 2151
cooleddie74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2012, 02:06 AM   #881
OneBuckFilms
Fleet Captain
 
OneBuckFilms's Avatar
 
Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

Xaios wrote: View Post
OneBuckFilms wrote: View Post
Actually, there is strong precedent in Canon.

Voyager had no issues with Fluidic Space.

And the Enterprise in The Immunity Syndrome was essentially swimming inside a giant amoeba, certainly a liquid environment roughly analogous to water.

The functioning within a 1G environment is slightly more problematic, until you realize that a starship is travelling at warp velocities, and has survived close proximity to far more intense gravitationally induced stresses, to the point of surviving time travel.
Can't really use Fluidic Space as an example, because we really have no idea of the pressure and viscosity of that particular fluid.

But it probably still wouldn't have any trouble, at least not if it moved slowly. Any ship that can survive the streses of a) skirting the event horizon of a black hole and b) getting blasted out of said black hole by a massive antimatter explosion probably isn't going to have any issues with water pressure... so long as it doesn't dive very far.

Does anyone know if NASA uses (or rather, used) submersion tests in order to determine the structural integrity of things like shuttles and Apollo capsules?
They use space suits when submerged in water for training for Zero-G missions.

If present-day spacesuits can easily deal with a fluid environment, then the extemes and rigours of warp travel, interstellar environments, Ion storms, extreme gravity (such as a "black star" or black hole), Quasar-like objects (The Galileo Seven) and giant amoebas among other strange, unpredictable situations, taking a trip in a Class-M planetary ocean body should not be too much of a stretch.

It should also be noted that the ship is known to survive extremely low orbital flight, as Captain Christopher and some US Air Force personnel can attest.

This kind of situation would likely prompt scotty to worry about the effects on his "Poor Bairns".
OneBuckFilms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2012, 02:48 AM   #882
Vektor
Rear Admiral
 
Vektor's Avatar
 
Location: Spokane, WA, USA
Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

OneBuckFilms wrote: View Post
Not sure as to how/why technology would be more advanced in the Alternate Reality, but I defer to writer/producer intent regarding the Alternate Reality splitting of Stardate 2233.04.
I never said Nero's incursion didn't cause a timeline split, I just raised the possibility that there might have been earlier splits that had already diverged from what we call the "prime" timeline. Nothing in the last Trek film contradicts that possibility and quite a few things support it. Of course, only Spock Prime would know for sure.

SantaEddie74 wrote: View Post
That's the way I look at the new timeline. Before the singularity that the Narada emerges from begins forming we're in the Prime timeline (Spock's birth in the deleted scenes of Trek '09 also happens in the original timeline on stardate 2230.06)....the moment the singularity begins to appear we're in the Abrams timeline. Everything diverges from that moment.

That means that the uniforms seen on the Kelvin crew are what the Prime timeline uniforms also looked like until at least 2233 and George Kirk was an officer aboard the ship in both timelines.
Except a lot of basic technology apparently took a giant leap backward in the Prime timeline subsequent to 2233 if everything was the same up until then. I don't just mean it didn't advance as quickly, it went backwards, i.e. graphical computer interfaces and touch-screen displays. Yes, of course this is merely the cinematic expression of a half-century difference between the making of TOS and the current movies, but if you want an in-universe way of explaining it, an earlier point of divergence might do it.

Plus I just think it would be cool if the NuTrek timeline was actually our own future, since the Prime timeline no longer can be.
__________________
www.vektorvisual.com
Vektor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2012, 02:50 AM   #883
EJD1984
Commander
 
EJD1984's Avatar
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

Sparky wrote: View Post
I just realized that there is one thing I didn't see. Lens Flares!
I just realized that as well!! Woo Hoo!!!!!
__________________
NXX-1701
EJD1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2012, 02:52 AM   #884
cooleddie74
Fleet Admiral
 
cooleddie74's Avatar
 
Location: The Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
View cooleddie74's Twitter Profile
Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

The Temporal Cold War changed history and eliminated lens flare from 23rd Century Starfleet history.

F***in' Daniels.
__________________
Human instinct is pretty strong. You can't expect us to change overnight.

-Captain Jonathan Archer, 2151
cooleddie74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2012, 02:56 AM   #885
EJD1984
Commander
 
EJD1984's Avatar
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

OneBuckFilms wrote: View Post
They use space suits when submerged in water for training for Zero-G missions.

If present-day spacesuits can easily deal with a fluid environment,
Not quite. The suits that NASA uses in the zero-gravity tank are made of specific fabrics and metals to withstand the continued use in water. Only the shape, weight, and resistance factors are mimicked to help train the astronauts.
__________________
NXX-1701
EJD1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:54 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.