The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey - Grading & Discussion (Spoilers)

[Skywalker]

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote:

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-My favorite bit of character here is the fact that Boromir grabs the hobbits Merry and Pippen and bravely jumps the gap. He had been building chemistry with these two along the journey to this point, training them at the campfire, but this moment really is a fantastic little hint of the sacrifice he will make to save them at the end of the film... a sacrifice which will pay off all the way in the third film when Pippen offers to serve Denethor in payment of Boromir's sacrifice.

This is a really good observation that I don't think I've ever considered before. They definitely had a few bits throughout the movie where Boromir seemed like he'd kind of taken on an older brother type of role for Merry and Pippin. There was also the scene on Caradhras where Boromir was pretty much carrying the two of them through the snow.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

See, I'm the opposite, I feel that the Moria stair sequence, while it had some great parts, really lost me with the tilting stairs in a way that The Hobbit didn't. I just couldn't bend my suspension of disbelief enough that I could feel that Aragorn and Frodo could tip the stair.

They didn't tip the stair on their own... the stair would probably have tipped as it did anyway, but their presence might have tipped it in a slightly different direction if they had applied their own weight in a different direction... so Aragorn wanted he and Frodo to reinforce the stairs' natural tilt by leaning forward.

Anyone can be cynical and say that this was still impossible, just as they could say that the bridge/ladder/pole stuff in the Hobbit was impossible. I actually thought that bit was entertaining, to be sure. But I wasn't involved in it. It didn't feel as big or as important as the tilting stair sequence. And it didn't serve to accentuate or develop the characters anything like I've demonstrated about the Moria sequence.

The other point I wanted to make in my post about the points I liked about the Moria sequence was how, when Frodo and Aragorn made it across, Howard Shore kicks in with his most bold use of the Fellowship theme... it truly symbolizes how together they were at that moment, after Aragorn and Frodo (normally the most isolated guys in the group) had made it to their friends.

[propita]

I had a Philosophy of Tolkien class, which brought up something that was really noticeable in the films HUJ and LOTR, the orcs! Half the time, they were written as near-mindless drones, but sometimes they were shown to be individuals with their own desires. I'd have to reread the books, but this struck me a lot while watching HUJ.

[Klaus]

That's definitely present in the books, especially in the conflicts among the orcs who kidnap Merry and Pippin and the ones in the Tower of Cirith Ungol...

[Alidar Jarok]

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote:

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All right, here it is.

The BIG question, no joke.

I haven't read the book in forever, so that's why I can't answer it, but this reviewer has the same feat I do, that we won't actually see Smaug in all his splendor until the third film. What do you guys think? In spite of the title of the second film, I'm afraid it's going to just tease us.

I think there are two thoughts here. My view is having Smaug die in the second movie exacerbates the "false ending" problem. My view is to have the Necromancer be the villain of the second and Smaug in the third. But, since it's called the Desolation of Smaug, I suspect the second one will be Smaug-heavy.

[sidious618]

Skywalker wrote:

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This is a really good observation that I don't think I've ever considered before. They definitely had a few bits throughout the movie where Boromir seemed like he'd kind of taken on an older brother type of role for Merry and Pippin. There was also the scene on Caradhras where Boromir was pretty much carrying the two of them through the snow.

Boromir was the best character in the LotR films. Sean Bean did a masterful job playing him and even though he had a very dark side to him, his love for Merry and Pippin was beautiful. The most complex character in those films, no doubt.

[CommanderRaytas]

Which is why the extended version of The Two Towers is so much better than the shorter one! That flashback scene Faramir has about the last time he and Boromir were together, at Osgiliath, gives a lot of insight into Boromir as a person...and explains why he was so tempted - driven - to take the Ring, and yet remained (and died as one) a good guy.

[Mark de Vries]

Set Harth wrote:

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I've gotta ask: if you can't see 3D why would you pay extra to see a 3D film? Did you feel like making a donation to the struggling film industry?

Not really no. But my girlfriend can see it, and she really liked it. Besides, the 3D showing was the only one that fit well in our evening plans.

[Klaus]

Alidar Jarok wrote:

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I think there are two thoughts here. My view is having Smaug die in the second movie exacerbates the "false ending" problem. My view is to have the Necromancer be the villain of the second and Smaug in the third. But, since it's called the Desolation of Smaug, I suspect the second one will be Smaug-heavy.

I'm thinking DOS goes with the assault on the Necromancer, then ends with Smaug flying off to attack Laketown... then the last one can open with Bard shooting him down and then the wrapping of the quest, fuss over the Arkenstone, and the Battle of Five Armies.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Or the entire thing is wrapped by the end of the second film, and the third film is just Bilbo saying goodbye to the dwarves for three hours. In 3D.

[Mike Farley]

I'll wait for the extended edition where Frodo sits down and reads Bilbo's book. Out loud. For 9 hours. In 3D HFR and Sensurround.

[Gaith]

Aeronef wrote:

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Some thoughts:

- The Holm Bilbo cameo was fantastic, but it would have been cooler to hear him talking about/to Frodo yet not see him (Frodo). That way, if one were to watch all six movies in narrative order, Frodo's appearance would be a treat only teased here. (... And would Bilbo really start writing his story on the very day of his departure?)

- The song around Bilbo's fire was wonderful, and too short. Hope it lasts twice as long in the extended cut.

- The orc-chase to Rivendell should have been cut, especially since the wargs as shown would have overtaken them several times over.

- Was definitely fun to see a more cheerful Elrond.

- When Galadriel vanished, did anyone else expect Gandalf to growl, "so that's what that feels like?"

- The rock monsters would have been a wonderfully eerie visual in the distance for the troop to gape at, but building a full-bore action scene around them was hardly necessary. Hey, now that I think of it, there were rock giants in the far background during Crash Bandicoot: Warped...

- That Troll King... ew. First we get the teethed you-know-whats in Kong, now this... oy.

- Overall, the action was indeed a over-the-top at times, but it fit with the tone more often than not, and nothing was a facepalm-worthy as the bronto stampede or Billy Elliot shooting several huge insects off of Brody yet never even grazing him.

- Man, would Kong have been awesome in 3D.

- The dwarf prosthetics were pretty amazing. I used to think a live-action Warcraft movie wouldn't work, as it isn't possible to make humans look so exaggerated and wild. I was wrong.


... And, once again, another eagerly-awaited geek movie utterly flunks the Bechdel Test. Give us some more fine and badass lady elves next time!

[The Mirrorball Man]

Gaith wrote:

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... And, once again, another eagerly-awaited geek movie utterly flunks the Bechdel Test. Give us some more fine and badass lady elves next time!

The movie does slightly better than the book. IIRC, the Bechdel Test is made of three parts: there are at least two female characters, they talk to each other about something else than a man. The book has no female character at all, so the movie is a marginal improvement.

[CommanderRaytas]

Mike Farley wrote:

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I'll wait for the extended edition where Frodo sits down and reads Bilbo's book. Out loud. For 9 hours. In 3D HFR and Sensurround.

I'd go at least 5 times to the cinema to watch that.

I WAS A TOLKIEN FAN BEFORE IT WAS MAINSTREAM! /Hipster

Actually, no, but I did read LotR, The Hobbit and The Silmarillion before the first film came out, so the expectations were pretty high (and for AUJ, too).... and boy, do I care that several of PJ's enhancements are pure fanwank / money grubbing? Nope. Not at all.

Though whether I'll approve of Evangeline Lilly and the Dwarves fawning over her.... we'll see.

[Set Harth]

Gaith wrote:

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That Troll King... ew.

Goblin, not troll. AKA the Great Goblin.