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Old November 8 2013, 11:36 PM   #1
A beaker full of death
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New Ms. Marvel

http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/11/05/T...spt=fsb&or=ros

Seems doomed to failure. The writer doesn't even see or exploit the conflict between someone from an extremely conservative background using the feminist title "Ms." Be prepared for shallow, superficial treatment.
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Old November 8 2013, 11:50 PM   #2
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Re: New Ms. Marvel

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/11/05/T...spt=fsb&or=ros

Seems doomed to failure. The writer doesn't even see or exploit the conflict between someone from an extremely conservative background using the feminist title "Ms." Be prepared for shallow, superficial treatment.

What?!?
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Old November 8 2013, 11:52 PM   #3
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Re: New Ms. Marvel

Define failure. How many issues before cancellation?
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Old November 8 2013, 11:55 PM   #4
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Re: New Ms. Marvel

And will failure be due to being conservative, a feminist, a Muslim, or a woman?
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Old November 8 2013, 11:57 PM   #5
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Re: New Ms. Marvel

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/11/05/T...spt=fsb&or=ros

Seems doomed to failure. The writer doesn't even see or exploit the conflict between someone from an extremely conservative background using the feminist title "Ms." Be prepared for shallow, superficial treatment.
read the first six issues already have you?
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Old November 8 2013, 11:57 PM   #6
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Re: New Ms. Marvel

I agree that she'll be lucky to get 12 issues, but not for the reasons you cite.

Also, we are already talking about this in the Marvel thread.
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Old November 9 2013, 12:35 AM   #7
Guy Gardener
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Re: New Ms. Marvel

I wonder if it will touch upon arranged marriage?

Would her super powers make more or less desirable as the families are haggling about her dowry?
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Old November 9 2013, 01:15 AM   #8
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Re: New Ms. Marvel

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
I agree that she'll be lucky to get 12 issues, but not for the reasons you cite.
Agreed. In fact, I'll say that people like Beaker are one of the most prominent reasons groundbreaking characters have such difficult publishing histories.

Feminist title "Ms"? Dude.
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Old November 9 2013, 01:27 AM   #9
A beaker full of death
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Re: New Ms. Marvel

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
In fact, I'll say that people like Beaker are one of the most prominent reasons groundbreaking characters have such difficult publishing histories.
Ace, you don't know me, so back the fuck up. There is nothing "groundbreaking" about a Muslim character. I DO object to superficially having her be Muslim without at all broaching all that entails, yes, which is something you should have gleaned from my original post. I'm all for groundbreaking. Randomly deciding a character is now gay, or black, or handicapped is not groundbreaking. How about dipping a little bit into what that identity actually means?

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post

Feminist title "Ms"? Dude.
ummm.... yes? Do you have any idea what that term was all about? Just WHY the very concept of "Ms." Marvel was so revolutionary at the time?
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Old November 9 2013, 01:30 AM   #10
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Re: New Ms. Marvel

Which isn't remotely notable now. "Ms." is the standard form of address.
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Old November 9 2013, 01:35 AM   #11
A beaker full of death
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Re: New Ms. Marvel

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
And will failure be due to being conservative, a feminist, a Muslim, or a woman?
A failure to delve into any of those - and their interaction - on any meaningful level.
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Old November 9 2013, 01:42 AM   #12
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Re: New Ms. Marvel

CaptainCanada wrote: View Post
Which isn't remotely notable now. "Ms." is the standard form of address.
To me this is like saying Bruce Wayne's parent's getting killed is irrelevant to the current iteration of the character.
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Old November 9 2013, 01:46 AM   #13
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Re: New Ms. Marvel

The article say the character admires Carol Danvers and that's why she takes the name. The feminist origins of the term aren't really relevant to her taking the name and neither are any ties she might have to conservative Islam. The picture of the character shows a woman is less than modest garb ( by fundamentalist Muslim standards ) so I doubt the character is in the chador/hijab camp.
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Old November 9 2013, 02:17 AM   #14
iguana_tonante
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Re: New Ms. Marvel

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
Ace, you don't know me, so back the fuck up.
I know you, well, enough. Ace.

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
I DO object to superficially having her be Muslim without at all broaching all that entails
What does it entail? She believes in god and calls it Allah. Big deal.

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
Randomly deciding a character is now gay, or black, or handicapped is not groundbreaking. How about dipping a little bit into what that identity actually means?
It doesn't need to mean anything. It can mean something, but it needn't to. People are randomly gay, black, handicapped, or god-forbid Muslim. They are not some kind of issues-oriented Other. Just, you know, people. It's not like they a reason not to conform to 50s' white American eteronormative standards, right? Or they do?


Feminist title "Ms"? Dude.
ummm.... yes? Do you have any idea what that term was all about?
Pretty much. It was revolutionary. In the 50s. How about you join us in the new century?
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Old November 9 2013, 02:25 AM   #15
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Re: New Ms. Marvel

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
It doesn't need to mean anything. It can mean something, but it needn't to. People are randomly gay, black, handicapped, or god-forbid Muslim. They are not some kind of issues-oriented Other. Just, you know, people. It's not like they a reason not to conform to 50s' white American eteronormative standards, right? Or they do?
This. A hundred times this.

It's one thing to decide you want a gay, black, handicapped, or Muslim character in your fiction. And they should be there, to some degree. The problem is inserting that character and having their gayness, blackness, handicap, or religion be the totality of their character.

But having her be a normal person, who's trait can be remarked upon occasionally when relevant or interesting? That's what we should want out of these changes in society.
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