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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old May 6 2013, 07:43 PM   #826
RAMA
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

cbspock wrote: View Post
Maxwell Everett wrote: View Post
cbspock wrote: View Post
Now onto the High Ground....what an ignorant view of terrorism. Deep Space 9 did a much better job. TNG steeped in moral equivalence liberal political correct BS which just dates the hell out of TNG. Picard was good at looking down his nose at people and making speeches. Can't call out your enemy because it wouldn't be politically correct and it OMG offend someone. DS9 and nuBSG took a more realistic view into such matters.

The episode looks great however.


-Chris
Sure, DS9 did a better job, there's no doubt -- after all, one of its main characters was a former terrorist! I have yet to watch this episode on Blu, but I seem to recall Picard not only calling out his enemy (and chastising Beverly for arguing Finn's cause) but full-on decking Finn moments after he appeared on his bridge!

I would argue that the episode's view of terrorism is more simplistic than ignorant. Basically, what the episode has to say about terrorism is that it's bad.

I guess ignorant and simplistic would be a better choice of words.


-Chris
Nonsense, what the episode said is that terrorism is much more complex than it is made out to be by nationalist agendas. IE:9/11 is a horrible act, but may have been mitigated if everyone had taken a less hardline approach to the situation in the Middle East. There had to be some sort of compromise that could have been reached decades before that would have kept fundamentalists from hating the US. Just in case you think this is impossible, look at the metaphor of the Northern Ireland situation, seemed intractable at the time, but solved decades before it was predicted in STNG. We are also now seeing many hints of change in the Middle East.

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Old May 6 2013, 08:00 PM   #827
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

NewHorizon wrote: View Post
I honestly had no issues with the way Tasha died. It was realistic. She died in the line of duty on a routine mission. It happens. I much prefer my Trek that way instead of over the top bravado. Our lives aren't always punctuated by a triumphant gesture at our death. My wife's uncle died in his sleep...her father passed away in the passenger seat of a car from a heart attack while her Mom rushed him to the hospital. They weren't saving a bus load of helpless people, or freeing a society from slavery, they just lived until they didn't.
Yup. I totally agree with that.
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Old May 6 2013, 08:20 PM   #828
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

RAMA wrote: View Post
cbspock wrote: View Post
Maxwell Everett wrote: View Post

Sure, DS9 did a better job, there's no doubt -- after all, one of its main characters was a former terrorist! I have yet to watch this episode on Blu, but I seem to recall Picard not only calling out his enemy (and chastising Beverly for arguing Finn's cause) but full-on decking Finn moments after he appeared on his bridge!

I would argue that the episode's view of terrorism is more simplistic than ignorant. Basically, what the episode has to say about terrorism is that it's bad.

I guess ignorant and simplistic would be a better choice of words.


-Chris
Nonsense, what the episode said is that terrorism is much more complex than it is made out to be by nationalist agendas. IE:9/11 is a horrible act, but may have been mitigated if everyone had taken a less hardline approach to the situation in the Middle East. There had to be some sort of compromise that could have been reached decades before that would have kept fundamentalists from hating the US. Just in case you think this is impossible, look at the metaphor of the Northern Ireland situation, seemed intractable at the time, but solved decades before it was predicted in STNG. We are also now seeing many hints of change in the Middle East.

RAMA
Change for the worse. Muslim radicals running wild and now unchecked, Sometimes you can't compromise with the other side they just have to lose especially when they won't compromise to begin with, but that is a conversation for another thread. No need to hijack this one for it.

-Chris
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Old May 6 2013, 08:33 PM   #829
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

TheSeeker wrote: View Post
NewHorizon wrote: View Post
I honestly had no issues with the way Tasha died. It was realistic. She died in the line of duty on a routine mission. It happens. I much prefer my Trek that way instead of over the top bravado. Our lives aren't always punctuated by a triumphant gesture at our death. My wife's uncle died in his sleep...her father passed away in the passenger seat of a car from a heart attack while her Mom rushed him to the hospital. They weren't saving a bus load of helpless people, or freeing a society from slavery, they just lived until they didn't.
Yup. I totally agree with that.
I agree as well. I thought bringing Crosby back as alternate-Yar/Sela only cheapened the sacrifice the character made in season one.
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Old May 6 2013, 08:34 PM   #830
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

There is a lot of criticism toward Gene Roddenberry in the bonus material. Ira Behr and Ron Moore take several shots at Roddenberry.
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Old May 6 2013, 08:40 PM   #831
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Casas9425 wrote: View Post
There is a lot of criticism toward Gene Roddenberry in the bonus material. Ira Behr and Ron Moore take several shots at Roddenberry.

The way he viewed the "TNG verse" was bad for TV Drama. I think that is where a lot of their criticism comes from. I think it is deserved. People will have conflicts it is in our nature. People are not always going to agree, we aren't a bunch of drones.



-Chris
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Old May 6 2013, 08:41 PM   #832
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

cbspock wrote: View Post
Casas9425 wrote: View Post
There is a lot of criticism toward Gene Roddenberry in the bonus material. Ira Behr and Ron Moore take several shots at Roddenberry.

The way he viewed the "TNG verse" was bad for TV Drama. I think that is where a lot of their criticism comes from. I think it is deserved. People will have conflicts it is in our nature. People are not always going to agree, we aren't a bunch of drones.



-Chris
Agreed.
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Old May 6 2013, 08:55 PM   #833
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Casas9425 wrote: View Post
cbspock wrote: View Post
Casas9425 wrote: View Post
There is a lot of criticism toward Gene Roddenberry in the bonus material. Ira Behr and Ron Moore take several shots at Roddenberry.

The way he viewed the "TNG verse" was bad for TV Drama. I think that is where a lot of their criticism comes from. I think it is deserved. People will have conflicts it is in our nature. People are not always going to agree, we aren't a bunch of drones.



-Chris
Agreed.
That is the one thing I never understood, if no one questions the way things are done, then the society would be stagnant. No one would look for new ways to do things. It would be a cage we would live in. Funny how Gene turned into Landru when he got old His world view was everything the original series fought against.


-Chris
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Old May 6 2013, 09:43 PM   #834
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Trek improved twice when Roddenberry took a step back. First, it was the movies after The Motion Picture, and then it was TNG after season 2.

He set things up nicely, but the restrictions hurt its future. Once writers could write without Roddenberry's "box", the show was better able to connect with the audience.

My favorite Trek is DS9, which is just about as anti-Roddenberry as you can get.
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Old May 6 2013, 10:05 PM   #835
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

jimbotron wrote: View Post
Trek improved twice when Roddenberry took a step back. First, it was the movies after The Motion Picture, and then it was TNG after season 2.

He set things up nicely, but the restrictions hurt its future. Once writers could write without Roddenberry's "box", the show was better able to connect with the audience.

My favorite Trek is DS9, which is just about as anti-Roddenberry as you can get.
Also when Gene Coon came in during the first season of Trek, he added a lot of depth to the characters and the universe.

Roddenberry set up the framework, and others filled in the gaps.
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Old May 6 2013, 10:06 PM   #836
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

DJ Mike wrote: View Post
Deja Q seems to be missing a bit of audio from Worf during the opening teaser, at 1:58, when Riker asks him to "contact all ships in the sector to rendezvous and join us in relief efforts" - he appears to say "Aye, sir" but there's no speech. Not quite sure it's recall-worthy though - but it is obvious!
FYI: This was called out a couple of pages back, it's an original production mistake made back in 1990, it's nothing CBS-D did wrong.
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...&postcount=749
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Old May 6 2013, 10:07 PM   #837
Doug Otte
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

BillJ wrote: View Post
TheSeeker wrote: View Post
NewHorizon wrote: View Post
I honestly had no issues with the way Tasha died. It was realistic. She died in the line of duty on a routine mission. It happens. I much prefer my Trek that way instead of over the top bravado. Our lives aren't always punctuated by a triumphant gesture at our death. My wife's uncle died in his sleep...her father passed away in the passenger seat of a car from a heart attack while her Mom rushed him to the hospital. They weren't saving a bus load of helpless people, or freeing a society from slavery, they just lived until they didn't.
Yup. I totally agree with that.
I agree as well. I thought bringing Crosby back as alternate-Yar/Sela only cheapened the sacrifice the character made in season one.
I agree about Yar's original death. It was wrenching and effective.

However, I did like seeing her again in YE. It gave us a more warm-n-fuzzy resolution to her character.
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Old May 6 2013, 10:08 PM   #838
davejames
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

cbspock wrote: View Post
The way he viewed the "TNG verse" was bad for TV Drama. I think that is where a lot of their criticism comes from. I think it is deserved. People will have conflicts it is in our nature. People are not always going to agree, we aren't a bunch of drones.
-Chris
I don't know. While I understand the frustration of the writers, I've personally always loved the respectful, mature, and professional way the TNG characters acted around each other-- and how there weren't the kind of petty disagreements and soap opera nonsense like we see on every other show.

They could certainly argue and disagree about the moral quandary of the week (which they did quite a LOT on TNG), but that's about as far as I would have wanted them to take it.
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Old May 6 2013, 10:18 PM   #839
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

davejames wrote: View Post
They could certainly argue and disagree about the moral quandary of the week (which they did quite a LOT on TNG), but that's about as far as I would have wanted them to take it.
Certainly. However, it seems even that was a touchy thing with Gene. He didn't even like too much of that.

For example characters like Capt. Jellico or Adm. Pressman could have never been used while he was alive.
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Old May 6 2013, 11:52 PM   #840
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

cbspock wrote: View Post
Watching the Defector, I love the after the opening credits chase of the scout ship and the Romulan cruiser. The ships in HD look great. The close up of the scout drifting over the Enterprise is really nice. I really wish they followed up on this episode in later seasons maybe when they had Spock on Romulus. The shots at the end with the Enterprise turning into the Romulan ships, is excellent. What Enterprise model was used for the shots in this episode, the details on it really stand out in HD. This is one of my favorite season 3 episodes.


-Chris
I wish they would have ended Nemesis with a call back to this episode. It would have worked for me as a finale for the TNG crew better than what the movie actually did. I get this sense that they didn't do it because it wasn't mainstream enough, and that's a shame.
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