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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old April 20 2013, 11:27 PM   #481
jimbotron
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

In the episode Sins of the Father, the picture has been tweaked slightly from the sampler disc. The color seems to pop more in the latest version, and the black level looks better:

Sampler:
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x...her_hd_315.jpg

Season 3 set:
http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/image...w/review34.jpg

Sampler:
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x...her_hd_100.jpg

Season 3 set:
http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/image...w/review33.jpg

The framing is still the same, of course. They had confirmed earlier that it would not be re-remastered.

Thanks very much for the screencaps, TrekCore
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Old April 20 2013, 11:33 PM   #482
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

TrekCore's full review of TNG Season 3 Blu-ray is up... with over 50 Pictures
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Old April 21 2013, 01:17 AM   #483
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Hang on. I'm sorry? What? The framing still doesn't match that on the 4:3 SD, Sins of the Fathers. It's been left the same as the sampler? Which was clearly zoomed in too much. Erm... why? As I understand it, it was only like that, because of early days experimenting to see how TNG would look cropped to 16:9. Which didn't work. I seem to recall reading that was admitted. So why couldn't that single episode have been redone, while the others of this season were? I thought it was definitely going to be, after it had been raised as an issue on the sampler.

It won't cause me to cancel my preorder, but disappointed the episode has come around (after however many months it's been known about) now as part of the one Season at a time remastering work and has just been left incorrectly framed.
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Old April 21 2013, 01:29 AM   #484
Maxwell Everett
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

M wrote: View Post
Is that supposed to be a city in the background? Because the perspective looks somewhat off and the size seems way too small. It's better than the SD equivalent, but still, it looks wrong to me.
I may be mistaken, but I see no *serious* problems with either perspective or scale in that shot. I think it's a little hard to judge size when we don't know how large those eroded laccoliths behind the city are intended to be. Remember that this is an alien world and our common Earth sense about distances and sizes could be way off. That main formation behind the city lights could be 1000 meters high.

I do, however, think it's a little weird that the cloud seen in front of the moon in the sky doesn't appear to be in the reflection in the sea/lake.
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Old April 21 2013, 02:16 AM   #485
Maxwell Everett
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

ChristopherPike wrote: View Post
Hang on. I'm sorry? What? The framing still doesn't match that on the 4:3 SD, Sins of the Fathers. It's been left the same as the sampler? Which was clearly zoomed in too much. Erm... why? As I understand it, it was only like that, because of early days experimenting to see how TNG would look cropped to 16:9. Which didn't work. I seem to recall reading that was admitted. So why couldn't that single episode have been redone, while the others of this season were?
Two likely reasons: money and time -- money being the most important of the two. The ultimate decision not to fix the framing probably came directly from the executives in charge of the project at CBS. They consider the episode finished (once the missing 13 seconds was located and scanned). I'm sure the folks at CBS digital would have liked to have fixed the framing but they were probably told not to.

To be fair, this is not a catastrophic problem (not that I'm saying you think so) as the framing represents the "action safe" area that was intended for picture tubes back in 1990. The only problem is that even today most HDTV's ship with a slight overscan turned on by default and the consumer has to be technically savvy enough to know how to turn it off. So this particular episode will look a little too much cropped on the top and bottom on most consumer's TV's and things like titles will be outside of the normal "title safe" area.

It's unfortunate, but we've known for quite a while that it wasn't going to be addressed. Think of it as the Persian flaw of Season Three on Blu-ray.
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Old April 21 2013, 03:47 AM   #486
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

I'm definitely disappointed that Sins of the Father has indeed remained unfixed, but it's so hard to be angry considering just how gorgeous everything looks. How I've waited for you, Season 3...the first TNG Blu-ray that I'll be watching every single minute of.
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Old April 21 2013, 04:38 AM   #487
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Wait, whats wrong with Sins of the Father? Do we have our first Season 3 complaint on the same level of HTV?
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Old April 21 2013, 04:55 AM   #488
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Didn't CBS say it would cost them too much to go back and fix Sins of the Father?

Why did they even have to experiment at all? Everyone could have told them TNG shouldn't be changed to widescreen.
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Old April 21 2013, 06:08 AM   #489
Maxwell Everett
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

tomalak301 wrote: View Post
Wait, whats wrong with Sins of the Father? Do we have our first Season 3 complaint on the same level of HTV?
Not at all. This issue goes all the way back to the Next Level sampler disc from January 2012. "Sins of the Father" was scanned at 2K in exactly the same way as every other episode thus far -- that is, at 2048 x 1556, full camera aperture. For whatever reason (probably to avoid rescaling the image), the tighter "action safe" area (which just so happens to correspond to an area that is 1440 x 1080 in size within that 2K scan) was chosen instead of the 5% bigger "TV Transmitted Area" (AKA broadcast safe) for all the non-VFX shots.

CBS *could* have CBS Digital reframe all the affected shots but they chose not to and consider it completed.

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Old April 21 2013, 07:00 AM   #490
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Other than losing minor detail scenes in those pictures (And I mean really minor), I don't really see a problem. That's a good thing.
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Old April 21 2013, 07:20 AM   #491
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Look on the bright side, the 13 seconds of recovered footage that's being reinserted will have proper framing.
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Old April 21 2013, 11:55 AM   #492
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Does that mean they will not correct that "Telelay"-thingy of "Inner light" for the 5th set as well?
Although to me that's a funny one. "Telelay".
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Old April 21 2013, 08:41 PM   #493
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Maxwell Everett wrote: View Post
To be fair, this is not a catastrophic problem (not that I'm saying you think so) as the framing represents the "action safe" area that was intended for picture tubes back in 1990.
I'm completely happy with you thinking I consider this a catastrophic problem. Having (at least) the same visable frame area which existed before, is actually quite important. Rescanning the film has at times yealded more of the frame, so it doesn't sit well with me there being less. Even for one episode. But it is just one episode. I guess I'll manage. I can't see CBS Digital not correcting it somewhere down the road though, and sneaking the correctly framed episode into some HD syndication or online streaming deal. So I think we can further pin it down to just time, in order to make a fixed release date. Rather than time and money.

Not terribly happy having spent a while since the sampler disc, under the misapprehension it'd be corrected by the time Season 3 was out. Just seemed so obvious an error, with no need to bang on about it.

I'd like to make clear my remarks aren't directed at you or anybody in particular. Or intended to be taken personally. I value the TNG remastering project and the efforts of all those working on it. Those are however, precisely my feelings about CBS Digital deciding not to correct an issue, that had been established for sometime now.

Last edited by ChristopherPike; April 21 2013 at 09:26 PM.
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Old April 21 2013, 09:11 PM   #494
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

i have it pre-ordered but i acquired it else where for now..

looks great so far...
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Old April 22 2013, 12:49 PM   #495
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Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

A nice review/overview of this release and Season 3 in general here:

http://www.geekscape.net/star-trek-t...blu-ray-review

Doesn't go into too much detail for the restoration, but was a good read, going into the special features and behind the scenes stuff quite a bit.
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