RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,750
Posts: 5,433,379
Members: 24,838
Currently online: 494
Newest member: Mei'konda

TrekToday headlines

Episode Four of The Red Shirt Diaries
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Star Trek: The Compendium Review
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Orci Drops Rangers Project
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Retro Review: Image in the Sand
By: Michelle on Sep 20

Star Trek: Shadows Of Tyranny Casting Call
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

USS Vengeance And More Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

Trek 3 To Being Shooting Next Year
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

Trek Messenger Bag
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

Star Trek Live In Concert In Australia
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

IDW Publishing December Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Sep 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Tech

Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 18 2012, 12:28 PM   #46
KamenRiderBlade
Lieutenant Commander
 
KamenRiderBlade's Avatar
 
Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

One common bad point in "Star Trek" writers is that they have a tendency to make Starfleet / UFP look incompetant by having technological failures, dumb rules, or incompetant people to create artificial drama.

Babylon 5, many Sci-Fi animes don't have their writers depend on these tropes.

It's the one part about Trek Writers that I hope to abolish if they ever create more TV series in the future.

There are many ways to create drama, using those stock tropes only make the protagonists look worse then they really should be is just bad writing.
KamenRiderBlade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18 2012, 12:28 PM   #47
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

Ergo getting a outside source is very beneficial to keeping manufacturing / repairs at full capacity.
...And giving the Jem'Hadar another target to aim at, easing the burden on primary duranium facilities in the UFP.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 18 2012, 12:41 PM   #48
KamenRiderBlade
Lieutenant Commander
 
KamenRiderBlade's Avatar
 
Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

Timo wrote: View Post
Ergo getting a outside source is very beneficial to keeping manufacturing / repairs at full capacity.
...And giving the Jem'Hadar another target to aim at, easing the burden on primary duranium facilities in the UFP.

Timo Saloniemi
That's a different way of looking at it.
KamenRiderBlade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18 2012, 01:58 PM   #49
Deks
Rear Admiral
 
Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

KamenRiderBlade wrote: View Post
Or the Federation might be consuming Duranium faster then they can replicate / produce given wartime energy levels.

Ergo getting an outside source is very beneficial to keeping manufacturing / repairs at full capacity.
In a complimentary capacity to avoid possible shortages during wartime... yes.
But not as a primary source.
__________________
We are who we choose to be but also have predefined aspects of our personalities we are born with, and make art that defines us.
Deks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18 2012, 04:27 PM   #50
Brainsucker
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

wait, according Memory Alpha, Replicator is :

A replicator was a device that used transporter technology to dematerialize quantities of matter and then rematerialize that matter in another form. It was also capable of inverting its function, thus disposing of leftovers and dishes and storing the bulk material again. (TNG: "Lonely Among Us"; DS9: "Hard Time", "The Ascent"; VOY: "Year of Hell", "Memorial")

So..., don't tell me again that replicator use only deuterium to magically produce anything. Or... Memory Alpha is actually false?
Brainsucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18 2012, 04:34 PM   #51
Deks
Rear Admiral
 
Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

Memory Alpha is NOT a canon source of information.
Per the actual on-screen data:
"Replicators convert energy into matter" - matter was never mentioned.
__________________
We are who we choose to be but also have predefined aspects of our personalities we are born with, and make art that defines us.
Deks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18 2012, 09:58 PM   #52
brian577
Captain
 
brian577's Avatar
 
Location: United States of Equestria
Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

Deks wrote: View Post
brian577 wrote: View Post
Actually in the DS9 episode Penumbra it was stated that the Galamites were supplying the Federation with Duranium. It would seem the war was so bad that the Federation had to rely on allies to provide them with raw materials.
Doesn't that strike you as poor writing?
To rely on any 1 species or source for something as vital as ship construction materials in the face of highly advanced technology that is basically integrated EVERYWHERE and is capable of creating practically anything is utterly unsustainable.
Ship construction materials would have to be made from readily available superior synthetic materials that can be made in abundance using the least amount of energy and resources... especially if we are talking about sustainability (let alone a war which was EXPECTED even).

I find it highly improbable, that they were never able to analyze the material and make a synthetic version - plus the material is NOT new.

Besides... Voyager constructed the second Delta Flyer which had a Duranium enforced hull (the first version had a Tetraburnium alloy that allowed the ship to withstand heavy atmoshperic pressure).
If Voyager was able to construct that ship at a spur of a thought and synthesize these materials (which they had to), the raw materials needed would have to be readily available in their environment (almost any given environment) that can be turned into synthetic Duranium, or Duranium is already replicable from energy alone (although granted, Voyager also could have traded with other races to get Duranium... if not the raw materials needed for its making).
Consisdering Voyager's bad writing, specifically that they were able to construct the ship at all with their supposedly limited resources, I'll take DS9's writing over there's.
brian577 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 19 2012, 12:14 AM   #53
Deks
Rear Admiral
 
Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

brian577 wrote: View Post
Consisdering Voyager's bad writing, specifically that they were able to construct the ship at all with their supposedly limited resources, I'll take DS9's writing over there's.
I wouldn't, seeing how DS9 often times dumbed everything down and made characters look like morons who are LESS advanced than WE are (and the Dominion War - not to mention the Founders, were a complete joke).
At least in Voyager, even though it wasn't completely explained, construction of the Delta Flyer was mostly in line with the technology at their disposal and level of thinking the characters should have employed throughout the show.
__________________
We are who we choose to be but also have predefined aspects of our personalities we are born with, and make art that defines us.
Deks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 20 2012, 03:18 AM   #54
Brainsucker
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

Deks wrote: View Post
Memory Alpha is NOT a canon source of information.
Per the actual on-screen data:
"Replicators convert energy into matter" - matter was never mentioned.
The problem Deks, Memory Alpha could give some "episodes Reference". So what about you? Where is that statement come?

brian577 wrote: View Post
Deks wrote: View Post
brian577 wrote: View Post
Actually in the DS9 episode Penumbra it was stated that the Galamites were supplying the Federation with Duranium. It would seem the war was so bad that the Federation had to rely on allies to provide them with raw materials.
Doesn't that strike you as poor writing?
To rely on any 1 species or source for something as vital as ship construction materials in the face of highly advanced technology that is basically integrated EVERYWHERE and is capable of creating practically anything is utterly unsustainable.
Ship construction materials would have to be made from readily available superior synthetic materials that can be made in abundance using the least amount of energy and resources... especially if we are talking about sustainability (let alone a war which was EXPECTED even).

I find it highly improbable, that they were never able to analyze the material and make a synthetic version - plus the material is NOT new.

Besides... Voyager constructed the second Delta Flyer which had a Duranium enforced hull (the first version had a Tetraburnium alloy that allowed the ship to withstand heavy atmoshperic pressure).
If Voyager was able to construct that ship at a spur of a thought and synthesize these materials (which they had to), the raw materials needed would have to be readily available in their environment (almost any given environment) that can be turned into synthetic Duranium, or Duranium is already replicable from energy alone (although granted, Voyager also could have traded with other races to get Duranium... if not the raw materials needed for its making).
Consisdering Voyager's bad writing, specifically that they were able to construct the ship at all with their supposedly limited resources, I'll take DS9's writing over there's.
I agree with you.
Brainsucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 20 2012, 10:35 AM   #55
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

Brainsucker wrote: View Post
Deks wrote: View Post
Memory Alpha is NOT a canon source of information.
Per the actual on-screen data:
"Replicators convert energy into matter" - matter was never mentioned.
The problem Deks, Memory Alpha could give some "episodes Reference". So what about you? Where is that statement come?
What episode were you referring too"

T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 20 2012, 10:40 AM   #56
Brainsucker
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

Merry Christmas wrote: View Post
Brainsucker wrote: View Post
Deks wrote: View Post
Memory Alpha is NOT a canon source of information.
Per the actual on-screen data:
"Replicators convert energy into matter" - matter was never mentioned.
The problem Deks, Memory Alpha could give some "episodes Reference". So what about you? Where is that statement come?
What episode were you referring too"

replicator was a device that used transporter technology to dematerialize quantities of matter and then rematerialize that matter in another form. It was also capable of inverting its function, thus disposing of leftovers and dishes and storing the bulk material again. (TNG: "Lonely Among Us"; DS9: "Hard Time", "The Ascent"; VOY: "Year of Hell", "Memorial")

I copy this from Memory Alpha. Look at the last one. They give us the episodes reference. Look at that, The three series. TNG, DS9 and VOY.
Brainsucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 20 2012, 11:34 AM   #57
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

Usually, such references are completely erroneous or subject to interpretation. One would have to go to each episode to see what is said or shown.

In this particular case, let's see what each episode has to say.

"Lonely Among Us": The word "replicator" is never even used. The tidbit being referred to is apparently this phrase: "You've seen something as fresh and tasty as meat, but inorganically materialised out of patterns used by our transporters." This neither supports or contradicts either of the models of replication: matter out of energy, or matter out of other matter.

"Hard Time": All we get wrt the replicator is that one puts the dishes back into it after eating. We saw such things in "Cardassians" already; why this particular episode is picked as a reference is unknown. Again, no real support or objection to the first claim made in the article. Only the second claim about recycling is supported.

"The Ascent": Again a reference to putting dishes back into the machine, only relevant to the second claim.

"Year of Hell": No idea what MA wants to reference here, as the replicators go offline for most of the episode.

"Memorial": Another reference to putting dishes back into the replicator.

So basically all that these supposed references give us is that dishes should be put back into the machine or mommy gets angry. We don't even learn what happens to the dishes when the button is pressed. Are they really recycled, or merely destroyed for convenience?

The first claim made in the entry is baseless in light of these particular references.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 20 2012, 01:26 PM   #58
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

double post
T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 20 2012, 01:28 PM   #59
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

Brainsucker wrote: View Post
Merry Christmas wrote: View Post
Brainsucker wrote: View Post
Deks wrote: View Post
Memory Alpha is NOT a canon source of information.
Per the actual on-screen data:
"Replicators convert energy into matter" - matter was never mentioned.
The problem Deks, Memory Alpha could give some "episodes Reference". So what about you? Where is that statement come?
What episode were you referring too"
replicator was a device ...
Please pardon the misunderstanding Brainsucker. I meant what episode was Deks referring too when he said ...

Per the actual on-screen data: "Replicators convert energy into matter"


I'm not sure where Deks obtained this quote.


Last edited by T'Girl; December 20 2012 at 01:45 PM.
T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21 2012, 05:53 AM   #60
Brainsucker
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

Merry Christmas wrote: View Post
Brainsucker wrote: View Post
Merry Christmas wrote: View Post
What episode were you referring too"
replicator was a device ...
Please pardon the misunderstanding Brainsucker. I meant what episode was Deks referring too when he said ...

Per the actual on-screen data: "Replicators convert energy into matter"


I'm not sure where Deks obtained this quote.

Ah I'm sorry too for the miss understanding

Timo wrote: View Post
Usually, such references are completely erroneous or subject to interpretation. One would have to go to each episode to see what is said or shown.

In this particular case, let's see what each episode has to say.

"Lonely Among Us": The word "replicator" is never even used. The tidbit being referred to is apparently this phrase: "You've seen something as fresh and tasty as meat, but inorganically materialised out of patterns used by our transporters." This neither supports or contradicts either of the models of replication: matter out of energy, or matter out of other matter.

"Hard Time": All we get wrt the replicator is that one puts the dishes back into it after eating. We saw such things in "Cardassians" already; why this particular episode is picked as a reference is unknown. Again, no real support or objection to the first claim made in the article. Only the second claim about recycling is supported.

"The Ascent": Again a reference to putting dishes back into the machine, only relevant to the second claim.

"Year of Hell": No idea what MA wants to reference here, as the replicators go offline for most of the episode.

"Memorial": Another reference to putting dishes back into the replicator.

So basically all that these supposed references give us is that dishes should be put back into the machine or mommy gets angry. We don't even learn what happens to the dishes when the button is pressed. Are they really recycled, or merely destroyed for convenience?

The first claim made in the entry is baseless in light of these particular references.

Timo Saloniemi
Well I don't know. Maybe there is no official info about this replicator in STar Trek
Brainsucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:49 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.