RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,597
Posts: 5,404,481
Members: 24,869
Currently online: 497
Newest member: michiko

TrekToday headlines

Star Trek: Gold Key Archives Vol. 2 Comic
By: T'Bonz on Oct 1

Cumberbatch In War Of Roses Miniseries
By: T'Bonz on Oct 1

Trek 3 Filming Location Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Oct 1

October-November 2014 Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

Cho Selfie TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

TPTB To Shatner: Shhh!
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

Mystery Mini Vinyl Figure Display Box
By: T'Bonz on Sep 29

The Red Shirt Diaries Episode Five
By: T'Bonz on Sep 29

Shatner In Trek 3? Well Maybe
By: T'Bonz on Sep 28

Retro Review: Shadows and Symbols
By: Michelle on Sep 27


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 2 2012, 12:38 AM   #16
Anwar
Vice Admiral
 
Anwar's Avatar
 
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Re: Before & After/Year Of Hell relationship

The time-eraser weapon overloaded/backfired within the ship when it blew up and erased itself from time. So in the new timeline Annorax never was able to figure out how to get the thing to work (the equations were erased from time itself) and gave up on the project. So the Universe afterwards was what happened when Annorax never built the thing in the first place.
Anwar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 12:55 AM   #17
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Before & After/Year Of Hell relationship

The time ship wasn't "destroyed" it was "removed from time".

Every one on the ship should have been removed form time as well, but i suppose they if the ship was removed completely first, it wouldn't exist any more to remove the crew from time and they would have just popped in the supper vacuum of whatever passes for space outside of time.

the idea of the ship wasn't destroyed.

But the raw resources used to make the weapon, some of which would have been very very very rare, and the loss of which could have put off their time table by months, which gave Annorax's wife time enough to play hide the salami a few more times before the Borg assimilated the Krenim which we discoverd was the final fate of Annorax in what would become status quo for this time during Infinite Recess (And that he's inside Seven.).
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 12:59 AM   #18
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Before & After/Year Of Hell relationship

Anwar wrote: View Post
The time-eraser weapon overloaded/backfired within the ship when it blew up and erased itself from time. So in the new timeline Annorax never was able to figure out how to get the thing to work (the equations were erased from time itself) and gave up on the project. So the Universe afterwards was what happened when Annorax never built the thing in the first place.
So if they removed one hand gun from time, everyone would forget how to make handguns, or just the guy that personally made the hand gun that was removed?
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 01:01 AM   #19
Dream
Admiral
 
Dream's Avatar
 
Re: Before & After/Year Of Hell relationship

At the end of the episode the whole thing just reset. No one remembering anything and there being no consequences killed it for me.
Dream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 08:10 AM   #20
donners22
Commodore
 
donners22's Avatar
 
Location: Victoria, Australia
Re: Before & After/Year Of Hell relationship

I recall an explanation of this which centred around Janeway's different hairstyles and ultimately said that the timeline changed. They did avoid any mention of Kes for the most part, though (and when they finally brought her back, everyone wished they hadn't...).
__________________
Kim: I'm detecting some weird technobabble.
Janeway: A possibly dangerous anomaly that we know nothing about?
Kim: Yeah. I suppose we should steer clear.
Janeway: Ha! Good one, Ensign. Take us in, Mr. Paris.

http://www.fiveminute.net/voyager
donners22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 08:47 AM   #21
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Before & After/Year Of Hell relationship

In Futures End Janeway claims to have had no idea what her family was up to in 1996, however by the 6th season in the episode 11:59, Janeway sings loudly that her childhood hero has always been her grandmother many times removed Shannon O'Donnell who was an astronaut in 1999.

No idea when they switched tracks for that time burp.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 10:28 AM   #22
YellowSubmarine
Rear Admiral
 
YellowSubmarine's Avatar
 
Re: Before & After/Year Of Hell relationship

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
The time ship wasn't "destroyed" it was "removed from time".
Which makes the whole story one big meta-grandfather. It was a grandfather paradox in meta-time. So just to make this cute and neat story they implicitly introduced meta-meta-time. They didn't go back in time to change it, they went back in timeline changes and changed them.

I think that the time ship was destroyed in one big plausibility explosion.
__________________
R.I.P. Cadet James T. Kirk (-1651)
YellowSubmarine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 11:04 AM   #23
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Before & After/Year Of Hell relationship

If that was a possibility, DS9 would not have survived Terry Farrel's acting.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 06:34 PM   #24
Anwar
Vice Admiral
 
Anwar's Avatar
 
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Re: Before & After/Year Of Hell relationship

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
The time-eraser weapon overloaded/backfired within the ship when it blew up and erased itself from time. So in the new timeline Annorax never was able to figure out how to get the thing to work (the equations were erased from time itself) and gave up on the project. So the Universe afterwards was what happened when Annorax never built the thing in the first place.
So if they removed one hand gun from time, everyone would forget how to make handguns, or just the guy that personally made the hand gun that was removed?
If they removed one super-special handgun no one had ever made before from time, then the one guy who invented it would simply not have been able to make it in the new timeline.
Anwar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 07:13 PM   #25
Lord Manitou
Commander
 
Lord Manitou's Avatar
 
Location: Michigan
Re:Year Of Hell where anything happens relationship

Approximately the same thing happened in Parallax (just after Caretaker) where the major disruption finally expodes and the entire scene fades back to a time before the event. Sometimes I think Leonard Nimoy writes these paradoxes just to feel ahead of everybody.
It wouldn't be too difficult to write a long list about the sameness of these time paradoxes (advanced machinery that gets powered and tried to the extreme,etc.) But one cannot disallow the fact that the whole event developed some type of consort whether real or virtual. Anything big powerful and complicated usually acquires, after awhile, some sort of thing to prove its placement in the time-space contiuum and long before the beginning of event is sparked off.
Janeway must be very wise about these possibilies or she wouldn't give series of commands that would lead to the end of this bizarre performance.
__________________
Janeway #1: Think, people we need options.
Janeway #2: I agree captain.

http://voyagr-ep-memorys.com/
Lord Manitou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 09:03 PM   #26
Dr. Sevrin
Vice Admiral
 
Dr. Sevrin's Avatar
 
Location: Melakon's grave
Re: Before & After/Year Of Hell relationship

Even though Year of Hell is interpreted as a reset, not all is the same going out as when going in. The Krenim commander in the little ship is aggressively hostile at the beginning of the story. After the final temporal incursion, his attitude is less tense, with a more formal tone in his initial contact advising Voyager to alter course from the disputed area. Janeway's reactions to his demeanor also differ.
__________________
Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard: For duty and humanity! --Men in Black, 1934
Dr. Sevrin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 12:09 AM   #27
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Before & After/Year Of Hell relationship

Anwar wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
The time-eraser weapon overloaded/backfired within the ship when it blew up and erased itself from time. So in the new timeline Annorax never was able to figure out how to get the thing to work (the equations were erased from time itself) and gave up on the project. So the Universe afterwards was what happened when Annorax never built the thing in the first place.
So if they removed one hand gun from time, everyone would forget how to make handguns, or just the guy that personally made the hand gun that was removed?
If they removed one super-special handgun no one had ever made before from time, then the one guy who invented it would simply not have been able to make it in the new timeline.
Why?

The machine does not manipulate people telepathically.

Besides, in the final bit we saw that he knew how to make the weapon and he was almost there. He was playing with temporal diagrams on his padd.

So did the the weapon just remove 1 percent of how to make the weapon because it's a bastard?
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 01:28 AM   #28
Anwar
Vice Admiral
 
Anwar's Avatar
 
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Re: Before & After/Year Of Hell relationship

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post

So if they removed one hand gun from time, everyone would forget how to make handguns, or just the guy that personally made the hand gun that was removed?
If they removed one super-special handgun no one had ever made before from time, then the one guy who invented it would simply not have been able to make it in the new timeline.
Why?

The machine does not manipulate people telepathically.

Besides, in the final bit we saw that he knew how to make the weapon and he was almost there. He was playing with temporal diagrams on his padd.

So did the the weapon just remove 1 percent of how to make the weapon because it's a bastard?
This thing was able to remove things entirely from the timeline, who knows it DOESN'T affect folks telepathically too?

The last scene showed he was working on the equations, not that he got them right. Maybe the way the device worked WAS by altering his mind so he didn't know how to get it right this time around.
Anwar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 02:34 AM   #29
Lord Manitou
Commander
 
Lord Manitou's Avatar
 
Location: Michigan
Re: Before & After/Year Of Hell relationship

The problem was, and about the only thing that made the ep., is Annorax couldn't get back, he couldn't get home, he couldn't return. If at the end they show him working on it again, and with some foreknowledge, it only means Janeway solved that problem for him. In the years that follow he might be effected by what the time machine already did.
__________________
Janeway #1: Think, people we need options.
Janeway #2: I agree captain.

http://voyagr-ep-memorys.com/
Lord Manitou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 03:00 AM   #30
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Before & After/Year Of Hell relationship

In the years that follow, Annorax is assimilated by the Borg.

So Anwar, when Chakotay tried to remove that asteroid, every one would forget that asteroids existed?

It's a chain root of effect and cause.

After "X" is removed by the weapon, the entire universe rushes to compensate for "X's" absence. the weapon is only responsible for the first domino, and after that they can only predict what happens to the rest of the dominoes, and not that well.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:28 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.