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Old June 24 2013, 11:23 PM   #256
Robert Comsol
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Location: USS Berlin
Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Made a final check (5 thru 7) and realized that Deck 5 wasn’t as final as I had hoped it to be.

The problem with “The Naked Time” A-frame corridor scenes is quite simply that the corridor to “Medical Ward 4” cannot be on Deck 7 nor on Deck 6 and apparently has to be on Deck 5 between “3C” and “3F” (funny, I pulled a “reconstruction rationalization” card on this one to explain the change of the corridor between “3C” and “3B” and between “Space Seed” and “Journey to Babel” but didn’t realize that the removal of the turbo lift in the corridor would still leave the extra turbo lift seen in NT but in “Scotty’s bedroom” according to the currently published Deck 5 draft).

As a consequence of this update
  • Scotty’s cabin has to be elsewhere on Deck 5 (according to “The Ultimate Computer”)
  • The Season One sickbay will perfectly align with the Season One sickbays below on Deck 6 and 7
  • Medical Ward 4 Season One (with the medical monitor over the exam table) was featured in “The Man Trap”, “The Naked Time” and “Space Seed” (all scenes) and is on Deck 5
  • Medical Ward 1 Season One (without the monitor over the exam table) is not on Deck 5 but on Deck 7 (and this also seems more compliant with the intentions in the beginning to have sickbay on Deck 7 only).
  • Scene from "The Man Trap" makes sense: Kirk is passing end of corridor (near engine room set) and arrives counter-clockwise at the door to the medical exam room
Illustration and comment for Deck 7 coming soon.

Bob
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Last edited by Robert Comsol; June 25 2013 at 11:37 AM. Reason: Kirk's passage to exam room in "The Man Trap"
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Old June 25 2013, 11:09 AM   #257
Mario de Monti
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Hi Bob,

after studying your deck 6 draft, I really like it a lot - like most of your previous deck plans BTW. OUTSTANDING work

Regarding the placement of LSC, I think the center is a good spot: For one it makes sense in-universe to place this important (control) room at the center of the main deck, since you have nearly equal distances to almost anywhere within the saucer. In case of systems failures you´d get anywhere in a short time. Maybe you´d like to locate a turbolift station next to it, if the visual evidence in the episodes "allow" that - it would further shorten "response time" in case of emergencies.

One thing that does look a bit odd on this deck is the "kink" in the turbo shaft at 9 o´clock. I´m sure you didn´t do this for the fun of it, but it may be worth a look if you can´t straighten this out

As to the (deck 7) question of a 22 person transporter I´m honestly a bit torn: in-universe it would probably make sense to have one or two of these. However, from what´s in the episodes there´s not enough evidence to really justify its existence, IMHO.
The line of waiting crewmen in This Side of Paradise doesn´t make much sense if there were a 22 person transporter on board. Wouldn´t everyone rather go to the big transporters, where waiting time would be much shorter? To me this scene always conveyed the feeling, that this transporter room was the only way off the ship.
And I wouldn´t put too much emphasis on what Matt Decker said: for one he wasn´t really "working on all thrusters" when talking to Kirk & Co. And even with a 22 person transporter, he´d have to complete 20 beam-downs to get everyone off the ship - still plenty of time to think things over.

Finally, even in-universe I´m getting second thoughts: there are (apparently) a number of the 6 person transporters scattered throughout the ship - easily accessible to everyone, no matter where they are. In case of an evacuation I´d rather use multiple smaller transporters, than one or two big ones, since hundreds of people would suddenly have to hurry to one location (could the turbolift network even handle all that "traffic"?). In the time it would take everyone to get to the big transporter, a good number of them could already have beamed out using the regular transporters. So a lot of people would probably do just that, I certainly would! Then why put in an extra big (and extra high maintenance) unit, that will hardly ever be used? And if the evacuation protocols would rely on the 22 person transporter, what if it doesn´t work when it´s needed - transporters have been known to break at the most inopportune moments

Having said all that, I very much like the design of a possible 22 person transporter suggested by Albertese, as well as your (Bob´s) idea of using the back wall from Court Martial there.


One last thought that I´ve had for a while now: with so much space already occupied on the saucer decks with the "visuals" from the episodes, how much room is there left in the outer areas of these decks? Specifically, is there still enough room to fit in quarters for 430 people?


Keep up the good work

Mario
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Old June 25 2013, 12:30 PM   #258
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Mario de Monti wrote: View Post
Hi Bob, after studying your deck 6 draft, I really like it a lot - like most of your previous deck plans BTW. OUTSTANDING work
Thank you very much, it's always good to see the amount of work (which is 90% of the time figuring out how the corridor elements from the various episodes could or should connect to one another and remain screen-accurate) appreciated.

It's also good to see you and Donny prefer LSC in the center. Ironically I just figured out, I can't really put it near the upper level of the Engineering Control Room because I need a stairway instead of the cabin still illustrated to get Spock down from Deck 5 to the Briefing Room 2 on Deck 6 in "The Naked Time".

Add to this (e.g. ST III) that the impulse engineering section is a tempting target for an adversary and you probably shouldn't locate LSC in this area of the ship.

Mario de Monti wrote: View Post
One thing that does look a bit odd on this deck is the "kink" in the turbo shaft at 9 o´clock. I´m sure you didn´t do this for the fun of it, but it may be worth a look if you can´t straighten this out
You're absolutely right and will probably like Deck 7 where I already straightened the "kink". Of course, we do not only have the main line in the saucer but according to the TOS Bridge schematic there's one in the neck dorsal as well and eventually the diagonal turbo shaft and the main line between the saucer and the engineering hull would otherwise collide, so it's probably best to have main line and main turbo shaft run parallel (most definitely in the neck dorsal).

However, given the amount of space Matt Jefferies allocated between the port and starboard impulse engine rooms, I think he intended to have two turbo shafts there (on Deck 6) that are parallel to one another. Considering the rather long ride through the neck dorsal, one location where two turbo lift cars can pass one another seems mandatory.

Mario de Monti wrote: View Post
The line of waiting crewmen in This Side of Paradise doesn´t make much sense if there were a 22 person transporter on board. Wouldn´t everyone rather go to the big transporters, where waiting time would be much shorter? To me this scene always conveyed the feeling, that this transporter room was the only way off the ship.
The episode didn't exactly feature an emergency and instead everyone like Lt. Leslie was extremely drugged and relaxed. They were not in a hurry to leave the ship.

However, The Making of Star Trek hints, IMHO, that using the 22 person transporter involves some risk (pattern loss?!).

I have difficulties imagine a crew member voluntarily stepping into such a transporter chamber, knowing that the regular ones are available, too ("rank hath its privileges"?). Definitely not Dr. McCoy who probably carries a ticket and seat reservation for the shuttlecraft in his medical pouch, just to be prepared for such an emergency.

But this again would probably imply that the 22 personnel evac transporter probably has to be somewhere near the cargo holds.
Given the choice of loosing precious time to get to the other transporters or giving this one a try, I'd probably rather take the risk and a ride in the 22 evac / cargo transporter.

Mario de Monti wrote: View Post
One last thought that I´ve had for a while now: with so much space already occupied on the saucer decks with the "visuals" from the episodes, how much room is there left in the outer areas of these decks? Specifically, is there still enough room to fit in quarters for 430 people?
I admit that I haven't thought that far, yet. This is another case where we have to ask whether we do need to take The Making of Star Trek literally and terminal.

On Deck 4 I considered a dormitory for junior officers (though definitely secured in their bunk beds, contrary to this stupid scene at the beginning of ST VI aboard Excelsior - if Nick Meyer really wanted to go full thrust with the "Hornblower Effect" he should have used hammocks!) and regarding the other crew cabins we might have larger rooms with three, four or five beds.

Thus far I've merely hinted such cabins in an experimental fashion by tinkering with enlarging the standard cabin studio set. Preferrably there should be two standard proposals, one multi-bed cabin facing the center of the deck (briefing room set redress?), one type of cabin that's behind the standard seen cabin set and is wider (and, of course, features the support beams of the briefing room set as a logical continuation along the radius of these beams). Should be fun to illustrate that.

Bob
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Old June 25 2013, 01:24 PM   #259
Mario de Monti
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Mario de Monti wrote: View Post
The line of waiting crewmen in This Side of Paradise doesn´t make much sense if there were a 22 person transporter on board. Wouldn´t everyone rather go to the big transporters, where waiting time would be much shorter? To me this scene always conveyed the feeling, that this transporter room was the only way off the ship.
The episode didn't exactly feature an emergency and instead everyone like Lt. Leslie was extremely drugged and relaxed. They were not in a hurry to leave the ship.
You may have a point there

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
However, The Making of Star Trek hints, IMHO, that using the 22 person transporter involves some risk (pattern loss?!).
That´s an interesting piece of information and it would explain, why we never saw it being used. I´m still not convinced though

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
On Deck 4 I considered a dormitory for junior officers (though definitely secured in their bunk beds, contrary to this stupid scene at the beginning of ST VI aboard Excelsior - if Nick Meyer really wanted to go full thrust with the "Hornblower Effect" he should have used hammocks!) and regarding the other crew cabins we might have larger rooms with three, four or five beds.
Well to be honest I´m not a big fan of shared cabins, especially for three or more people.
Again, consider the psychological aspect: Away from earth for years at a time, with a "real" community aboard, along with relationships and everything connected with that; illnesses, emotional problems of all sorts - personally I´d loathe the prospect of committing to all that that without a "home away from home", a cabin just for myself, where I answer to no one and can be by myself whenever I want. And the idea to reserve this privilege to the senior officers seems a tad too militaristic to me.
Comparing to real life navy ships, these are filled with soldiers, not explorers and scientists, and are "just" sailing for a few months at a time, still relatively close to home.
As for screen-proof: what comes to mind is Ensign Garrovicks spacious 1-person cabin in Obsession.

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Should be fun to illustrate that.
I´m sure of that

Mario
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Old June 25 2013, 03:26 PM   #260
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Mario de Monti wrote: View Post
Personally I´d loathe the prospect of committing to all that that without a "home away from home", a cabin just for myself, where I answer to no one and can be by myself whenever I want. And the idea to reserve this privilege to the senior officers seems a tad too militaristic to me. ...
As for screen-proof: what comes to mind is Ensign Garrovicks spacious 1-person cabin in Obsession.
But we've seen colonist dwellings like in "The Deadly Years" which suggest rather spartanic living conditions / expectations, IMHO.

Regarding "cabin 341" we never saw the other half of the cabin or its possible (and conjectural) extension, just Garrovick's bed in the part of the set where Captain Kirk usually has his desk.
The wardrobe cylinder definitely has two compartments, therefore two crewmen would have one individual compartment each.

And I'm also unable to see the need of a desk and computer in every two bed cabin for the crew. During work shifts or during sleeping time, this area will never be used and thus would constitute a waste of precious space.

I'm sure there are many public places aboard the ship (like the rec room in "The Trouble With Tribbles" where Scotty read his infamous technical journal with the Mark IX/01 primary phaser article) where the crew can use computers to check mail or do research or read UFP Today and there are probably enough rooms to allow for privacy.

Unlike older submarines, crew members no longer have to share beds depending on their work shifts, but they have plenty of rooms they can use and share.

I think TOS might even be a better concept than TNG, where you have characters like Lt. Barclay that are actually able to isolate themselves from the rest of the crew and live in holodeck fantasies instead.

In TOS the crew has to interact and in a broader sense I feel this to be a good thing. According to McCoy in "Arena" (and there was another one if I recall correctly) "rank hath its privileges" and I believe that definitely refers to have your own private cabin but something that needs to be earned.

At the end of the day, and assuming Kirk is correct with his "430" people statement, these have to be accomodated according to the space that's left on the Enterprise. I'm already curious myself how this turns out.

Bob
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Old June 26 2013, 08:46 AM   #261
Mario de Monti
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
But we've seen colonist dwellings like in "The Deadly Years" which suggest rather spartanic living conditions / expectations, IMHO.
And also in Mudd´s Women. But I hope we can agree, that this is only due to budget contraints on the show ... ?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Regarding "cabin 341" we never saw the other half of the cabin or its possible (and conjectural) extension, just Garrovick's bed in the part of the set where Captain Kirk usually has his desk.
The wardrobe cylinder definitely has two compartments, therefore two crewmen would have one individual compartment each.

And I'm also unable to see the need of a desk and computer in every two bed cabin for the crew. During work shifts or during sleeping time, this area will never be used and thus would constitute a waste of precious space.
True. But not all 1-person-cabins would have to be as big as those of the senior officers. Garrovick´s could really be just the "half" we see, with an unseen bathroom to complete it.

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
At the end of the day, and assuming Kirk is correct with his "430" people statement, these have to be accomodated according to the space that's left on the Enterprise. I'm already curious myself how this turns out.
That of course remains to be seen, so far one can only speculate. Still, I already wanted to convey my thoughts on the matter.


I have also put some more thought into the 22 person transporter. You said, that accoording to TMoST it involves some risk when used. Before I thought, this might be a good explanation as to why we never got to see it. But now I´m really having problems with that and for these reasons:

1) Why would a 22 person transporter be less safe than a 6 person one? You / TMoST hinted at pattern loss. So maybe there´s not enough memory space or similar problems. If this is the case then:

2) Would Starfleet really implement such a system into its starships that potentially endangers the crew? Why not size it down to the point, where they´re safe again? Why not rather use two (safe) 12 person units than one (unsafe) 22 person one? Or stick with the (proven) 6 person transporter, just in larger numbers.

3) The only time when you´d actually be using these emergency transporters would be ... well, during an emergency. Meaning during a catastrophic event, with possibly chaotic conditions aboard. So the crew will be under a lot of stress, even anxiety or mild panic might be present - training and simulations can´t prepare them for everything. And in this situation, would you really ask the crew to step into this big transporter, that they have a) never used before and that is b) potentially dangerous, thus heightening their anxiety/panic? Or would you not rather have them use a facility that they´re familiar with and know is safe?


Interested in your thoughts.

Mario
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Old June 26 2013, 11:34 PM   #262
BorgusFrat
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Mario de Monti wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
And I'm also unable to see the need of a desk and computer in every two bed cabin for the crew. During work shifts or during sleeping time, this area will never be used and thus would constitute a waste of precious space.
True. But not all 1-person-cabins would have to be as big as those of the senior officers. Garrovick´s could really be just the "half" we see, with an unseen bathroom to complete it.
This is a really cool point!

Yes, if you do it this way the crew person would still have their own private space (even if they had to have a "shared' bathroom) and more important it's a way to not necessarily have to have the "isolation rooms" that FJ came up with-- or at least not as many of them would be necessary. I really like this idea. The bed, wardrobe and maybe a "hidden" desk or something like that to do a few personal desk-type things (maybe it'd be a flip-down? Or slide-out? Or maybe it's even hidden in the wardrobe and could be a portion, or half, of the wardrobe cylinder itself!!!).

Plus, with the kind of technology the Federation has you could say that the walls of every cabin are virtually "soundproof", even if it's not because of higher-tech in the building materials but even because of "sound dampener fields" or something else like that. This would make the cabins truly "private".

This sounds really neat and is sensable because it avoids the "bunk bed ' approach which would be probably unbearable on a 5 year deep space mission-- and it makes the fact that there's wide hallways/ corridors on these ships more acceptable, because at least it makes it look like the designers at Star Fleet are thinking of both the people working on and crewing the ships AND the fact that they need "private time & space", as well as the TV reality that they couldn't make the corridors any narrower in real life. (Plus it makes sense to say the corridor widths are just yet another thing that's done to give the crews more 'sanity' and sense of space on such long missions!).

Excellent idea. I hope you use it, Mr. Comsol.

Peace all.
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Old June 27 2013, 06:17 AM   #263
Mytran
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

While we never see the other half of Garrovick's cabin, we see enough to know that the space was there (complete with rotating wardrobe and door out into the corridor). The mesh divider does not seal off Garrovick's side in any way, shape or form - which is a shame really, as all it would take is a wild wall panel to plug the gap!

Maybe there is an additional (unseen) bed in the area behind the mesh, but I know that if I was forced to share a bedroom with someone else for any length of time, I would prefer to have some of that space set up where I could sit and work/read/relax etc. A bunk bed would free up some of the room nicely.
Maybe Garrovick and his roommate just couldn't agree on who got the bottom bunk, and this was their solution?
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Old June 27 2013, 11:27 AM   #264
Mario de Monti
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

@ BorgusFrat

Thanks for supporting this idea. To me the privacy aspect was always very important, especially on such long and complex missions.


@ Mytran

You´re right, we see there´s something there ... just not what! Production-wise we know of course it´s the other half of the cabin set, but that must not be true in-universe. This could just be where the bathroom I suggested is located (the mesh doesn´t have to be "see-through" in this case). At least I hope this is possible, I didn´t watch the episode again and am relying on your screencap for now


Mario
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Old June 27 2013, 12:17 PM   #265
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Many interesting thoughts to digest, thank you gentlemen!

@ BorgusFrat
I concur, the width and height of the main corridor suggests that Starfleet's Engineering Corps considered the psychological need for space.
The outer corridor on Deck 5 ("Journey to Babel") is equally wide as the inner main corridor ("rank hath ist privileges"?) but I wonder whether the corridor width should stay the same as we proceed to the outer areas. Further out, the radius of the circular corridors will allow ship's personnel to see farther down these corridors (= more "space") and theoretically could be narrower.

@ Mytran
I really like the idea of a higher "bunk bed" in the other half of Cabin 341 with a working desk below it (except it will not show in a 2D blueprint representation ).

Two such bunk beds in the standard cabin would be claustrophobic, thus the empty space above Garrovick's bed provides pyschological space for two occupants of such a cabin. Great idea!
While Garrovick doesn't have to climb into his bed, he needs to go to his roommate's half and the roating closet to get to his stuff. I also have little doubt that 23rd technology would allow for some efficient sort of (visual and audio) separation of the two halfs should the two occupants desire it.

This would also explain the stupid (can't really put that nicely, sorry) concept of having one small cabin with two doors to access it, with the bedroom one being obviously redundant.

But if we are looking at some kind of standard cabin module, mostly in use by more than one occupant, the doors would make some sense and obviously have a name sign ("...Garrovick Ensign" left) and door ringer each. Let's say Ensign Garrovick is on duty but his roommate Ensign Ricky is at the working desk. Someone rings for Garrovick. No reply, Garrovick is gone and Ensign Ricky occupied with something else and doesn't have to interrupt his studies or whatever else he is doing to come to the door unless someone is outside "his" door.

@ Mario de Monti
If there was a bathroom adjacent to the standard cabin it should be the side door in the half that's usually occupied by Kirk's bed. In "The Corbomite Maneuver" cut scene - as Mytran had pointed out and which I didn't pay proper attention to - it was just an extra wall closet for Kirk's uniforms (we can catch a bare glimpse of it open in the background when he leaves his cabin) but episodes like "Mirror, Mirror" and especially "Elaan of Troyius" suggested it to be a bathroom, IMHO.

Kirk said to Elaan that Uhura's cabin was the best they had on board and I've taken this as a hint that Uhura's is probably among the few (if not only one) that has a bathtub and not just a (sonic?) shower.
In general (and in particular for the Season Two ones, where the corridor displaces the possibility of a bathroom, e.g. "Amok Time", "Journey to Babel"), I wonder if even the senior officers have to go for public bathrooms and showers as long as they reside in such cabins. As a spartanic Vulcan Spock might not really need a cabin with a bathroom, in the case of Kirk's cabin in "Journey to Babel" I believe this was a temporary choice and that he had given his normal one up on behalf on an ambassador who insisted on a cabin with an adjacent bathroom for the duration of their mission.

If a bare-chested captain in blue slippers is no out of the ordinary sight aboard the ship, I'd expect other personnel to be equally undressed coming from or going to a "public" shower.

Bob
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Last edited by Robert Comsol; June 27 2013 at 12:38 PM.
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Old June 27 2013, 01:26 PM   #266
Mario de Monti
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
But if we are looking at some kind of standard cabin module, mostly in use by more than one occupant, the doors would make some sense and obviously have a name sign ("...Garrovick Ensign" left) and door ringer each. Let's say Ensign Garrovick is on duty but his roommate Ensign Ricky is at the working desk. Someone rings for Garrovick. No reply, Garrovick is gone and Ensign Ricky occupied with something else and doesn't have to interrupt his studies or whatever else he is doing to come to the door unless someone is outside "his" door.
That makes sense. I had not paid attention to the locations of the door ringers before. Guess I must start watching the episodes on a frame-by-frame basis

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
If there was a bathroom adjacent to the standard cabin it should be the side door in the half that's usually occupied by Kirk's bed. In "The Corbomite Maneuver" cut scene - as Mytran had pointed out and which I didn't pay proper attention to - it was just an extra wall closet for Kirk's uniforms (we can catch a bare glimpse of it open in the background when he leaves his cabin) but episodes like "Mirror, Mirror" and especially "Elaan of Troyius" suggested it to be a bathroom, IMHO.
I concur. But just because the bathroom is located there in the senior officers quarters it doesn´t necessarily mean it has to be there in the crew quarters as well. And if you´d consider two cabins sharing a bathroom located between them, then in one cabin the bathroom would be on one side, in the other cabin on the other side.

I have to stress this again, I´m afraid: I really, REALLY don´t like the idea of shared cabins or shared bedrooms. I mean they are all young, healthy adults. There´s gonna be plenty of romance, intimacy and sex aboard - what else is there to do on board anyway, if you´re not into botany or chess? Would you (or Starfleet for that matter) really ask your crew members to quarrel over "bedroom time" with your roommate like present day college students? They are all grown-ups who have certain standards and expectations as to their living conditions and I´m sure that being able to be alone in their bedroom whenever they want to is among those.

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
If a bare-chested captain in blue slippers is no out of the ordinary sight aboard the ship, I'd expect other personnel to be equally undressed coming from or going to a "public" shower.
Seriously, never noted the blue slippers before

But I don´t think Kirk qualifies as proof in this matter: we know how gladly he takes off his shirt in front of everyone ... anyone
The crew´s just gotten used to this sight.

Mario
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Old June 27 2013, 09:21 PM   #267
Mytran
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Bunk bed and desk - something like this? An interesting idea (in a suitably TOSified design of course) and solves the problem of both a work area and a roommate (plus an explanation of the extraneous door)

An open bathroom & closet room is a good option - the (opaque) mesh could be the edge of a sliding door that closes off for privacy.

However, I am much more spartan in my view of Enterprise living conditions and see no reason why everyone should get a personal bathroom, or even their own room. Yes they'd have to do the 23rd century equivalent of hanging a tie on the doorhandle when having a "friend" over and as Mario_de_Monti said this is a lot like a college student - but time and again (especially in Season 1) we see the male crewmembers acting like college students, so what's the problem?

The idea of everyone having their own room is lovely, but the biggest obstacle IMO is that its already been done - by Franz Joseph. Following Roddenberry's instructions in "The Making of Star Trek", FJ allocated a single bed to each of the 430 crewmembers (those sharing still had two rooms, so the ratio of each person having their own room still applies) The result: is deck after deck of bedrooms. Now, this is not a slight against FJ and I do not wish to derail the thread, but the fact remains that giving each crewmember their own private bedroom eats up a huge percentage of the Enterprise's interior volume, with very little space left for work areas and machinery.
Hence: cram them in, I say!!!

I don't know if I ever mentioned any of them before, but I've come up with very similar theories as Robert_Comsol with regards to Uhura's cabin being one of the few with a bathroom, public washrooms being the norm (as per Kirk's stroll) and even corridors having different widths throughout the ship. As I mentioned above, I think my interpretation of wash areas is a little stricter, but in parts of the ship solely devoted to accomodation (or just low foot traffic) why would corridors need to be wider than 4 feet?
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Old June 27 2013, 10:44 PM   #268
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Looks like the crew cabins is a delicate subject and apparently needs to be resolved before my friend Andy is confronted with the task of accomodating all the cabins in the final CAD blueprints.

For the introduction to his movie Enterprise thread, Donny made a statement I absolutely agree and think it's equally appliable to Kirk's TV Enterprise: "I'm drawing both from TMP and TWOK as far as detailing goes, mixing and matching various elements. I want to balance the clean feel of TMP with the functional militaristic feel of TWOK. Less hotel, less submarine, more starship."

From what I read at the BBS there are fans that apparently advocate the submarine approach while Mario de Monti seems to rather advocate the hotel approach. If I were forced to make one choice I'd go with the hotel approach.

But then again, this project is not about what I like things to be but to represent the ship as seen onscreen and as close as possible to what Matt Jefferies and the producers intended it to be. For me it always comes down to the question "Would Matt have approved?" and I hope and pray I'm doing something he would have liked - and approved...

Unfortunately he no longer walks the Earth to be consulted (same for Bobby Justman and of course Gene Roddenberry), therefore we have to rely on source materials like The Making of Star Trek: "Junior officers are assigned similar accomodations, but usually are required to share them with one other fellow officer."

And considering the influence of the Hornblower novels I believe that the bulk of the crew sleeps on the B(erth) Deck and not the H(otel) Deck (sorry, couldn't resist a little pun).

While I feel that Nicholas Meyer went into "Hornblower Overdrive" in ST VI and especially the "bunk bed brawl" aboard Excelsior at the beginning of he film, I think it's pretty clear that the idea of "sharing" a cabin had been among the first premises of the series.

And the outside of Garrovick's cabin in "Obsession" suggests nothing to the contrary (notice that the camera angle inside Cabin 341 avoids to show us the other half of the cabin. The cabin set only had one bed and one desk. Had the producers wanted to provide Garrovick with an officer's cabin, they probably would have shown more of his cabin...and inevitably a desk).

But I sympathize with the need for privacy and sexual interaction (yet feel the standard cabin's dull interior not to really be an invitation for such interaction). Since this is not the Enterprise-D with families aboard, I'd presume sexual interaction wouldn't mean "reproduction" but constitute an activity that comes under the heading of "recreation"?

On Deck 8 we do have the R(ecreation) Deck which contains "a rather exotic entertainment center". (or did Whitfield censor Roddenberry's "erotic" by transforming it into "exotic"?).

I can imagine rooms there which do serve the aforementioned purpose and obviously a walk straight from the herbarium to one of these rooms might yield a much more rewarding experience than passing the busy and/or dull corridors on the way to a cabin which would possibly rather be a mood killer, IMHO. Thoughts?

@ Mytran

Can't shake the suspicion you do have a full archive of analogies what the interior of the ship should be like. First the "endless pool" and now a bunk bed with a desk to instantly illustrate the essential idea (TOSified it would have to be, indeed).

I do believe when we're dealing with deck plans there's always an elephant in the room named Franz, so I have no problems with that. On the contrary, as you just mentioned, he illustrated accomodations for 430 people and this gives us a good idea how much space we do, could or should have for accomodation.

But as you said, toilets and showers could or should be shared where possible and appropriate to free up space we may need for mechanical components of the ship.

Bob
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Old June 27 2013, 11:12 PM   #269
throwback
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Removed unnecessary comment

Last edited by throwback; June 27 2013 at 11:22 PM.
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Old June 28 2013, 09:43 AM   #270
Mario de Monti
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

These are all good and valid points, against which I could just go on yelling "psychology, psychology!!"

But I hope we can agree, that the visual and "circumstantial" evidence can be interpreted either way. So I suggest postponing this topic until Bob has finished fitting in all the interiors from all the episodes and can determine how much space there is left. If it should turn out, that there isn´t enough room to give everyone on board their own (albeit small) cabin, than this discussion is moot anyway! And if it turns out, that there would be enough room ... well, then we´ll just put on the gloves

PS:
@ Mytran: Love the bunk bed/desk idea
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