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Old November 27 2012, 05:33 AM   #16
blssdwlf
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Re: Was the Ambassador Class phased out?

Did the Sovereign-class participate in any DS9 battles?
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Old November 27 2012, 08:35 AM   #17
t_smitts
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Re: Was the Ambassador Class phased out?

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
Did the Sovereign-class participate in any DS9 battles?
No. The only Sovereign ever seen was the big "E" and that was only seen in the three movies.

Real world reason is probably that a "hero" ship like that (which is larger than most other Starfleet ships) would stand out in fleets, rather than blending in, the way that Excelsiors, Mirandas, Nebulae, and even Galaxies do. You can't have some guest ship upstaging the Defiant!
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Old November 28 2012, 12:39 PM   #18
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Was the Ambassador Class phased out?

IIRC, the Sovereign-class' absence in DS9 was due to TPTB wanting it kept "special" (i.e. only for the TNG movies)
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Old November 29 2012, 01:12 AM   #19
Mark_Nguyen
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Re: Was the Ambassador Class phased out?

Yes. I believe the DS9 people wanted to have one in the background or even on special occasions, but the execs wanted to keep her for the movie outings. Frankly I think it would've been just fine to see the Big-E in a shot or two, sorta like seeing the USS Galaxy in action at Chin'toka. It WOULD seem a little wierd to have Picard in a fleet commanded by Sisko, but it's not as though the hierarchy of the big fleet battles made that much sense to begin with IMO, beyond cool-lookingness.

I agree that there probably weren't that many Ambassadors built to begin with, being supposedly akin to the Galaxy's initial rareness as Starfleet's premier explorer. However, where the Galaxy may have seen increased production beyond the six that were initially planned (per Sternbach et. al.), the Ambassador may have been kept to small production runs and also to their intended duty of being deep space explorers.

I like to imagine maybe two dozen of the class being constructed in two batches (NCC-10xxx and NCC-26XXX ish, going by known registries) and spending the vast majority of their times on the periphery of Federation space and beyond. When the war rolled around, Starfleet may have recalled those Explorers within a year's travel time of the conflict, but otherwise left the guys further out on their own, perhaps at best telling them not to go out further on their planned courses into deeper space just in case they needed to be brought back. We know that Starfleet had ships up to thirty years travel time beyond Federation space (VOY "Lifeline"), and one or more of them may have been an Ambassador-class ship, tooling along and waving the flag to anyone who may want to come conquering. :P

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Old November 29 2012, 05:21 PM   #20
EmperorTiberius
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Re: Was the Ambassador Class phased out?

^I agree

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Maybe they just never built very many to start with. Therefor you don't see them for the same reason you don't see the newly created Sovereign Class, at the time of the Dominion War there are only two or three of them.
This is what I mentioned on another topic. If only 6-12 were ever built (like Galaxies and Constitution), and few like Enterprise and Horatio destroyed, you woudn't have many around. When Dominion War came, they would have tried to complete Galaxies that already had frameworks built and in storage rather than go with building Amabassadors from scratch.

Last edited by EmperorTiberius; November 29 2012 at 05:39 PM.
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Old November 29 2012, 05:41 PM   #21
EmperorTiberius
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Re: Was the Ambassador Class phased out?

t_smitts wrote: View Post
blssdwlf wrote: View Post
Did the Sovereign-class participate in any DS9 battles?
No. The only Sovereign ever seen was the big "E" and that was only seen in the three movies.

Real world reason is probably that a "hero" ship like that (which is larger than most other Starfleet ships) would stand out in fleets, rather than blending in, the way that Excelsiors, Mirandas, Nebulae, and even Galaxies do. You can't have some guest ship upstaging the Defiant!
I think a Sovereign class ship would blend in just fine, being that it's slightly bigger than Excelsior, but much smaller than Galaxy and Nebula.

It would have been nice to see USS Sovereign swoop past those Galors when the Galaxies did.
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Old May 1 2015, 08:30 AM   #22
CharlieZardoz
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Re: Was the Ambassador Class phased out?

There was at least one Ambassador class ship in the Dominion war, the Exeter as part of the 9th fleet. Wasn't shown on screen but neither was the 9th fleet
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Old May 1 2015, 09:12 AM   #23
Ithekro
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Re: Was the Ambassador Class phased out?

I would think that with Starfleet pulling probably all the Galaxy-class ships from their assignments to the Cardassian border would mean that all those areas they had been exploring or defending would still needs something to fill in for them. Sending in the Ambassador-class ships would seem reasonable. They are reportedly a bit slow in sublight, which might make them a little too much of a liability in the sublight melee-like battles against the Dominion, but they have enough firepower, warp powee, and sensors ability to maintain defenses against the likes of the Tholians, Gorn, and other smaller powers. Also able to continue exploring regions the Galaxy's were exploring prior to them being called back around the time USS Odyssey was destroyed.
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Old May 2 2015, 04:24 PM   #24
Timo
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Re: Was the Ambassador Class phased out?

It might also be that a high percentage of these top-of-the-line ships for each era are sent to those "up to thirty years away from the UFP" assignments. At any given time, then, there would be lots of "top ships" from several recent eras out there - but a crisis like Dominion War would only warrant calling back the very newest vessels

1) because they would make the greatest difference in the war, and
2) because they would not be quite as far out yet as the earlier ships, plus
3) they might very well be the fastest of the lot, and thus the ones best suited for emergency recalling.

This would not be a matter of policy, of keeping up exploration. It would be a tactical and technological matter where only the Galaxies could and would be recalled, and the Ambassadors would fail to qualify for recall orders.

There's an underlying assumption there that might be false, though. None of the Enterprises ever undertook anything like those 30-year missions to our knowledge, even though the E-B, E-C and E-D at least held apparent leading status in the Starfleets of their day. Could we then plausibly argue that any of their sister ships did, when we totally lack explicit evidence? Perhaps only second-rate ships are assigned 30-year missions, or even those decade-long sorties that the Olympia (with 23rd century style nacelles - see the wreckage!) apparently was on.

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Old May 2 2015, 05:15 PM   #25
CharlieZardoz
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Re: Was the Ambassador Class phased out?

I think the evidence implies that not as many Ambassadors were built as Galaxy's Excelsior's or Miranda's Akira's etc. Like the Renaissance or New Orleans there are a few here and there but they had a limited run therefore there are only a few around in comparison to the massive output of the other designs which we know the real universe reason was that they were all CGI renders. There was another Ambassador class near the Cardassian border the Valdemar it's possible it fought in the Dominion War as well at least there is no evidence to dispute that possibility.
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Old May 2 2015, 05:59 PM   #26
Timo
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Re: Was the Ambassador Class phased out?

Well, there are more Ambassadors known by name than there are Galaxies... If only barely.

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Old May 2 2015, 06:17 PM   #27
Ithekro
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Re: Was the Ambassador Class phased out?

And seemingly all the Galaxy-class ships are near Deep Space Nine, and later Earth when Voyager returns. Unless they really ramped up production on that class of vessel. Though why were Starfleet have so many at Earth? Massive refit project to convert the war time Galaxy-class ships into proper explorers?
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Old May 2 2015, 07:07 PM   #28
mos6507
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Re: Was the Ambassador Class phased out?

As far as successful world-building goes, I think it was a mistake to carry over any movie-era designs into the TNG era with the lone exception of the Stargazer which was an older ship anyway. They did it because they had the models lying around but at the expense of plausibility. If in Trek III they could justify retiring the Enterprise then it makes no sense to have dusty old Mirandas which are roughly the same vintage flying around in the TNG era. Policywise it's just too inconsistent. It was cost-cutting that cut into suspension of disbelief.
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Old May 2 2015, 08:12 PM   #29
Galileo7
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Re: Was the Ambassador Class phased out?

If the Ambassador class design was used as the 1701-A prototype in TVH than that would have been an extremely exciting final scene to see Kirk and crew take her out.
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Old May 2 2015, 09:41 PM   #30
Tim Walker
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Re: Was the Ambassador Class phased out?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Large number of B-52's flying around multiple decades after their construction. Other younger bombers have come and gone in the same time period.

All starships might not be created equal.
If you compare the Excelsiors to B-52s, the Mirandas could be compared to DC-3s.

BTW, by the TNG era the Excelsiors seem to have been relegated to milk runs. Such as ferrying passengers out to the Enterprise D.
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