RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,342
Posts: 5,502,315
Members: 25,118
Currently online: 735
Newest member: Ashanti

TrekToday headlines

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

Rumor Mill: Saldana Gives Birth
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

New Line of Anovos Enterprise Uniforms
By: T'Bonz on Dec 11

Frakes: Sign Me Up!
By: T'Bonz on Dec 11


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 17 2013, 04:42 PM   #91
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Chekov Prime was ill-equipped to be security chief too (he was naive and more interested in scientific trivia than security protocols and he was always geting beaten up) but he did make a competent bridge tactical officer.
Chekov Prime is also a completely different character from the Abramsverse version and was also 25-30 years old when made security chief in the Prime timeline. Uhura would make a far more convincing security chief in the new universe.
__________________
"...the most elementary and valuable statement in science, the beginning of wisdom, is I do not know." - Lt. Commander Data, "Where Silence Has Lease"
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 17 2013, 04:53 PM   #92
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Chekov Prime was ill-equipped to be security chief too (he was naive and more interested in scientific trivia than security protocols and he was always geting beaten up)
I think you're overlooking that there's a gap of several years between when we last saw him as navigator and when we first saw him as security chief. He could've spent the years that the ship was being refit undergoing extensive security training. (There's a novel, Traitor Winds, that shows exactly that, exploring how and why Chekov made the transition to security.)


Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Actually that's not true
It is true. He was back. Not quite the way we were used to, but for the point of my response, it was enough. I thought.
No, I was responding to your first sentence, where you claimed that "the death of Spock only affected a few issues." He may have been back after STIII, but the original status quo was not restored at that time; the consequences of his death still affected the storylines of most of Volume 1's issues, not just the first few.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 18 2013, 08:48 AM   #93
Pauln6
Rear Admiral
 
Pauln6's Avatar
 
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Christopher wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Chekov Prime was ill-equipped to be security chief too (he was naive and more interested in scientific trivia than security protocols and he was always geting beaten up)
I think you're overlooking that there's a gap of several years between when we last saw him as navigator and when we first saw him as security chief. He could've spent the years that the ship was being refit undergoing extensive security training. (There's a novel, Traitor Winds, that shows exactly that, exploring how and why Chekov made the transition to security.)
I love Traitor Winds - it was the first novel I read where the focus was not on the Big 3. However, I was referring more to how Chekov was portrayed in the movies after TMP. He was assigned to the science department in TWoK and there was never any real evidence that he was a competent security officer in TWoK, TVH, TFF, and especially not in TUC. Look at scenes like the confrontation with Khan, the interrogation on the nuclear wessel, and the murder investigation. As a security officer, he looks shambolic.

Now NuChekov can be painted differently and if moving him off navigation opens up a slot for a new minor female character (I'd love to see them make use of Ilia, even if they just use a bald bit part actress). However, making the boy genius a combat expert feels like an odd fit.

I also have to 'fess up and say that I've been a proponent of updating Janice Rand as a security-trained yeoman in order to provide a simple role for an action heroine, so updating characters is not something I'm against. To a certain extent though, the horse has already bolted for Chekov.
__________________
Star Trek/Babylon 5/Alien crossover www.youtube.com/user/pauln6

Other Worlds Role Playing Game
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/produc...ducts_id=97631
Pauln6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20 2013, 09:35 AM   #94
Pauln6
Rear Admiral
 
Pauln6's Avatar
 
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

One advantage of Uhura being a blank slate is that it will be easier for them to build an interesting background for her. The review of the next issue on Trekmovie.com looks interesting.
__________________
Star Trek/Babylon 5/Alien crossover www.youtube.com/user/pauln6

Other Worlds Role Playing Game
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/produc...ducts_id=97631
Pauln6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21 2013, 08:07 PM   #95
serenitytrek1
Commander
 
Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Can someone please post a full summary of ongoing 18.I have not read it yet.
serenitytrek1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21 2013, 10:54 PM   #96
Sto-Vo-Kory
Captain
 
Sto-Vo-Kory's Avatar
 
Location: Battle Creek, MI
Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
Can someone please post a full summary of ongoing 18.I have not read it yet.
Okay, here goes:

Sto-Vo-Kory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 2 2013, 11:28 AM   #97
Pauln6
Rear Admiral
 
Pauln6's Avatar
 
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

ok so I've now read both 18 and Countdown to Darkness issue 2. I rather liked the Uhura origin story. It was a little bit lightweight but its heart was in the right place. It didn't overdo the relationship stuff.

I'm torn as to whether I would have preferred an uncle or an aunt featuring as an influence. We've already seen that Kirk's dead father seems to have more of an impact on his character than his mother, we've seen McCoy's father, and we've seen that while Spock's dual nature can be personified by his parents, it's ok to kill his mother because his human girlfriend can now step into that role. I suppose the difference between Spock and Kirk is that Spock's surviving parent is an ongoing influence while Kirk's mother is a footnote. So on the one hand it would have been nice to see the influence of a female relative on one of the characters but on the other would that polarise the sexes - the boys are influenced by other males and the girls by other females. I think they still need to change their game when it comes to gender roles.

I'm really liking the prequel comic. There are more than enough plot threads to make this very interesting. Four issue stories allow for so much more plot and character development that I'm still lamenting that we get only one or two issue stories in ongoing. Maybe if they do one four issue brand new story per year that would satisfy my desire for some more meat on the bones. I really think that the Vulcan storyline would have benefited tremendously from being twice as long. The opener was fantastic and there were a wealth of possibilities to explore. It was just over too quickly and neatly.

Nichelle Nichols would have been great in the centre chair and it's nice to see the Saldana version effortlessly filling that role with the same strength of personality. Now all they need to do is REPEAT THIS ON SCREEN - SHE DESERVES IT!!!!!

Once again, apart from Uhura and a navigator in flashback, women are thin on the ground. April's command team was all male and it's getting tiresome. Social insect hierarchies on Earth are dominated by females, including warriors, with males' primary purpose to mate with queens. It will be interesting to see if these alien bugs follow that hierarchy of they impose a male dominated hierarchy instead.

Overall, this was a good month for NuTrek comics.
__________________
Star Trek/Babylon 5/Alien crossover www.youtube.com/user/pauln6

Other Worlds Role Playing Game
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/produc...ducts_id=97631
Pauln6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2013, 05:06 PM   #98
serenitytrek1
Commander
 
Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

I just read the comic yesterday. it was very sweet, fluffy, predictable and romatic.

NU-Spock is more human than TOS Spock will ever be.

It is also quite obvious that Uhura is not his first girl he has been with as Spock seems to know a lot about the intimate (sex) aspects of relationships.


You would think that Vulcans would be very private and even a little ignorant about those kind of things.

However I agree, the comic was too short and the ending was too neat.

Last edited by serenitytrek1; March 3 2013 at 05:40 PM.
serenitytrek1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2013, 05:24 PM   #99
serenitytrek1
Commander
 
Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
ok so I've now read both 18 and Countdown to Darkness issue 2. I rather liked the Uhura origin story. It was a little bit lightweight but its heart was in the right place. It didn't overdo the relationship stuff.

I'm torn as to whether I would have preferred an uncle or an aunt featuring as an influence. We've already seen that Kirk's dead father seems to have more of an impact on his character than his mother, we've seen McCoy's father, and we've seen that while Spock's dual nature can be personified by his parents, it's ok to kill his mother because his human girlfriend can now step into that role. I suppose the difference between Spock and Kirk is that Spock's surviving parent is an ongoing influence while Kirk's mother is a footnote. So on the one hand it would have been nice to see the influence of a female relative on one of the characters but on the other would that polarise the sexes - the boys are influenced by other males and the girls by other females. I think they still need to change their game when it comes to gender roles.

I'm really liking the prequel comic. There are more than enough plot threads to make this very interesting. Four issue stories allow for so much more plot and character development that I'm still lamenting that we get only one or two issue stories in ongoing. Maybe if they do one four issue brand new story per year that would satisfy my desire for some more meat on the bones. I really think that the Vulcan storyline would have benefited tremendously from being twice as long. The opener was fantastic and there were a wealth of possibilities to explore. It was just over too quickly and neatly.

Nichelle Nichols would have been great in the centre chair and it's nice to see the Saldana version effortlessly filling that role with the same strength of personality. Now all they need to do is REPEAT THIS ON SCREEN - SHE DESERVES IT!!!!!

Once again, apart from Uhura and a navigator in flashback, women are thin on the ground. April's command team was all male and it's getting tiresome. Social insect hierarchies on Earth are dominated by females, including warriors, with males' primary purpose to mate with queens. It will be interesting to see if these alien bugs follow that hierarchy of they impose a male dominated hierarchy instead.

Overall, this was a good month for NuTrek comics.


As for women not been presented well in star trek. I would give JJ Abrams the benefit of the doubt for into darkness.

We have both Zoe Saldana and Alice Eve as the lead females. They are meant to be Spock and Kirk’s love interest but I also think that they will be more than that.

JJ Abrams does say that Uhura is a very strong and independent woman and Carol Marcus's intelligence will be a key factor in the villain’s defeat.

They are not just pretty faces..However Uhura does seem to be crying in the trailer.We all knowing crying represents one of the characteristics of stereotypical weak females.


I am not expecting Trek girls to be like Bond girls but I don't think Trek girls are Bella Swans or old school Disney Princess.


Some male trek fans are upset about how the core trinity of Trek, which is Spock-Bones-Mccoy has ben replaced with Spock-Uhura-Kirk.

So.......there is no need to be worried about the dominant male establishment.

Last edited by serenitytrek1; March 3 2013 at 07:30 PM.
serenitytrek1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3 2013, 06:09 PM   #100
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post
We all knowing crying represent one of the characteristics of stereotypical weak females.
Personally I've always felt it's the other way around, that the weak ones are the men who try to avoid the natural, healthy expression of sorrow or pain out of the fallacious belief that it's unmanly. Emotions are part of us, and denying a part of yourself makes you weak. Not to mention that being afraid of one's own emotions is hardly a courageous thing.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4 2013, 09:15 AM   #101
Pauln6
Rear Admiral
 
Pauln6's Avatar
 
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

serenitytrek1 wrote: View Post

We have both Zoe Saldana and Alice Eve as the lead females. They are meant to be Spock and Kirk’s love interest but I also think that they will be more than that.

JJ Abrams does say that Uhura is a very strong and independent woman and Carol Marcus's intelligence will be a key factor in the villain’s defeat.

They are not just pretty faces..However Uhura does seem to be crying in the trailer.We all knowing crying represents one of the characteristics of stereotypical weak females.


I am not expecting Trek girls to be like Bond girls but I don't think Trek girls are Bella Swans or old school Disney Princess.


Some male trek fans are upset about how the core trinity of Trek, which is Spock-Bones-Mccoy has ben replaced with Spock-Uhura-Kirk.

So.......there is no need to be worried about the dominant male establishment.
Two decent female leads won't make up for a male dominated establishment if there are no decent women in supporting roles. Having seen the cast list, it still looks as though they've introduced even more new male characters than women again and some of the new female characters appear primarily to be mothers and sex objects, exactly the same as the first movie. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt but I have insufficient evidence to do at this stage.
__________________
Star Trek/Babylon 5/Alien crossover www.youtube.com/user/pauln6

Other Worlds Role Playing Game
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/produc...ducts_id=97631
Pauln6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4 2013, 03:43 PM   #102
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Well, Abrams's first two TV series were the very female-centric Felicity and Alias, and he co-created two other series with strong female leads, Fringe and the short-lived Undercovers. And in his Mission: Impossible III, the character who started out as the male lead's love interest ended up being effectively the heroine. As for Kurtzman and Orci, they were briefly showrunners on Xena: Warrior Princess, wrote for Alias, wrote M:I:III, and co-created Fringe. So I think there's plenty of evidence that these creators have no problem putting women in important roles.

On the other hand, it's possible that there's studio pressure to aim these movies and tie-in comics at the presumed target demographic of young males.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4 2013, 07:58 PM   #103
Pauln6
Rear Admiral
 
Pauln6's Avatar
 
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, Abrams's first two TV series were the very female-centric Felicity and Alias, and he co-created two other series with strong female leads, Fringe and the short-lived Undercovers. And in his Mission: Impossible III, the character who started out as the male lead's love interest ended up being effectively the heroine. As for Kurtzman and Orci, they were briefly showrunners on Xena: Warrior Princess, wrote for Alias, wrote M:I:III, and co-created Fringe. So I think there's plenty of evidence that these creators have no problem putting women in important roles.

On the other hand, it's possible that there's studio pressure to aim these movies and tie-in comics at the presumed target demographic of young males.
I'd be interested to see what the expected demographic was for those shows. I'm willing to bet that an awful lot of young men were very happy to watch indeed.

I don't think it's a male demographic issue though because that is served by having token cuties running around in short skirts. It always looks like a win/win situation to me - male fans are usually happy to see more women and female fans are happy to see more women. I can only think the lack of supporting women and total lack of older women is subconscious sexism issue on the part of the writers and casting people. I've yet to see any other plausible reason.
__________________
Star Trek/Babylon 5/Alien crossover www.youtube.com/user/pauln6

Other Worlds Role Playing Game
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/produc...ducts_id=97631
Pauln6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4 2013, 08:27 PM   #104
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

^Again, I think the writers' actual record proves that they are more than capable of writing women as more than just eye candy. Evidently you haven't seen the shows and movies I referenced: I have, and I guarantee, the female leads were very strong and central to all of them. So you're absolutely wrong to accuse Abrams, Kurtzman, and Orci of sexism.

And I gave you a plausible reason -- pressure from the studio to conform to the target demographic. Surely you're aware that the creators of film and TV are not given total creative freedom, that they have to conform to the wishes of the studio or network executives. A lot of the decisions that shape films and TV shows are made by the executives whose names we don't see rather than the writers, directors, and producers whose names we do see.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 5 2013, 01:05 AM   #105
Pauln6
Rear Admiral
 
Pauln6's Avatar
 
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Again, I think the writers' actual record proves that they are more than capable of writing women as more than just eye candy. Evidently you haven't seen the shows and movies I referenced: I have, and I guarantee, the female leads were very strong and central to all of them. So you're absolutely wrong to accuse Abrams, Kurtzman, and Orci of sexism.

And I gave you a plausible reason -- pressure from the studio to conform to the target demographic. Surely you're aware that the creators of film and TV are not given total creative freedom, that they have to conform to the wishes of the studio or network executives. A lot of the decisions that shape films and TV shows are made by the executives whose names we don't see rather than the writers, directors, and producers whose names we do see.
Of course I have seen some of those shows and I do applaud those shows for having female leads. Buffy and Xena weren't the first shows to have female leads but they were among the first modern shows to prove that such shows could be phenomenally popular. I'm guessing here but I also expect that if you were to dig a bir deeper into the recurring cast you would find a ratio of 2:1 male:female. That's not terrible but it's not equality and it's also far, far better than the ratio we have in NuTrek at the moment.

I think probably Dollhouse and Battlestar Galactica did the best in evening up numbers and prominence of the men and women. Alias had a fairly decent mix too and some fun with its supporting characters as the series progressed but it was a vehicle for the luminous Jennifer Garner and she eclipsed everybody, both male and female - that woman could cry and change wigs in one breath. I wouldn't give Mission Impossible a pass though. The team that was wiped out in the first film was balanced but ever since then we've had no female agents in the implausible second movie, and only one female agent in each of the sequels compared to 3-4 male agents. The male agents have been varying in age, appearance, and skill, while the women are exclusively young and pretty. I freely admit I was gutted when Kristen Scott-Thomas didn't make it into any of the sequels - now that woman could have been an awesome IMF agent.
__________________
Star Trek/Babylon 5/Alien crossover www.youtube.com/user/pauln6

Other Worlds Role Playing Game
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/produc...ducts_id=97631
Pauln6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
#31, 0718, comics, gatt, idw

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:59 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.