Break The Bully - Page 5

Owain Taggart · November 24 2012, 12:01 AM

Kestra wrote:

I haven't been bullied, so I hope I'm not just coming across as extremely insensitive. But I think at a certain point it becomes something you just can't hold onto.

No, I think you're quite right, Kes. Which is why I've tried pushing myself into things I would never have thought to do, such as pushing myself out of my shell. A lot of it has to do with the pyschological aspect of it and how deeply bullying has affected us as persons though. In the end, we just try to live our life day to day.

In other words, like I've mentioned earlier in the thread, I've used those experiences to better myself, and I wouldn't have mentioned them if it weren't for this thread as it's not something I often talk about or dwell on, and it's felt therapeutic in a way.

MacLeod · November 24 2012, 12:37 AM

^Yep it's the pyschological aspect of it. Many peope who are bullied do not dwell on it years later. But it would be foolish not to acknowledge that it has more than likely played a part in making whom you are today. I'm more or less happy with who I am today, yes I'm somewhat shy and an introvert, but I don't see the need to change just to suit others either accept me for me or not.

Owain Taggart · November 24 2012, 01:57 AM

Yeah, and in fact, what the bullying has helped me learn is to be more accepting towards others, and that's an important life lesson. Kind of ironic when you think about it, but it's given me a wider appreciation for life in general. Sorry if that sounds cheesy, but it kind of gave me a new spectrum, if that makes any sense.

iguana_tonante · November 24 2012, 02:16 AM

Deranged Nasat wrote:

The tendency to latch onto maladaptive thoughts can pull one over on us in more ways than one - not only leading to damage in the first place but blocking our will to truly deal with that damage or move past it. You can become so used to turning your traumas over in your mind that, as you say, they become integral to your identity. And the wounds that have been inflicted on you won't be allowed to heal, because you come to need them, and jealously guard and defend them as something sacred, something precious. Holding onto the pain feels comforting - it's familiar, and more than that you feel it's something you have a right to, that in letting it go you're betraying yourself or excusing what was done to you. You invest it with a moral righteousness that can be quite addictive. It's a difficult trap indeed.

That's exactly the thought pattern I was trying to address, and the effect on people's behaviour. Thanks for explaining it better that I ever could.

Nerys Ghemor · November 24 2012, 06:04 AM

teacake wrote:

Stuff is posted, people respond. I think it's been a helpful and interesting conversation. I think people minimize the effect bullying has and if this was a conversation about dealing with being cheated on, or sexually harassed or any number of things it would be more acceptable.

This is pretty much what I was going to say: people shouldn't whine about hearing people's stories and feelings about being bullied and characterize it as obsessing on the subject when a) the OP clearly wanted an open and frank discussion on the topic and invited contributions and b) those who don't want to hear it could see what this thread was about and had a choice whether or not to open it. It's not like it was foisted upon anybody unwillingly.

It's not like I spend every day moping about what happened in my past or that I am not a functioning adult with a good, full-time job. But if someone asks the question, others should not be surprised when they get honest answers detailing the facts of what happened to those of us who experienced bullying.

teacake · November 24 2012, 06:13 AM

I never think about it on my own but when the topic comes up anywhere it's immediately there, not in theory but a past lived experience. The way it has affected my adult life is that if I thought my kid was being bullied and the school wasn't dealing with it I would and have turned into a ferocious tiger parent.

I was going to say it makes you raise your own children to be defenders of the weak and more compassionate but I reckon 99% of parents would say that's what they do. I'm not sure what causes bullies, especially in the very early years. I'm assuming there are points scored in a schools social hierarchy by squashing lesser people. Having existed completely outside of that hierarchy for my whole school life it's still more theory than understanding for me.

<--personal childhood hero

Gul Re'jal · November 24 2012, 06:46 AM

I don't whine about it everyday either. But understanding what had happened to me helps me deal with the scars. It helps me to tell myself that I'm not a walking monster but that my own perception is severely warped. I'm not objective when looking at myself. I'm seeing me through their insults. Knowing it helps me heal, even if it's a very slow process.

Kestra · November 24 2012, 07:23 AM

Nerys Ghemor wrote:

teacake wrote:

Stuff is posted, people respond. I think it's been a helpful and interesting conversation. I think people minimize the effect bullying has and if this was a conversation about dealing with being cheated on, or sexually harassed or any number of things it would be more acceptable.

This is pretty much what I was going to say: people shouldn't whine about hearing people's stories and feelings about being bullied and characterize it as obsessing on the subject when a) the OP clearly wanted an open and frank discussion on the topic and invited contributions and b) those who don't want to hear it could see what this thread was about and had a choice whether or not to open it. It's not like it was foisted upon anybody unwillingly.

It's not like I spend every day moping about what happened in my past or that I am not a functioning adult with a good, full-time job. But if someone asks the question, others should not be surprised when they get honest answers detailing the facts of what happened to those of us who experienced bullying.

I'm sorry that you felt my contribution consisted of whining. It wasn't my intent.

Rhubarbodendron · November 24 2012, 07:45 AM

Just look at all the people who have come out of the closet in this thread and admitted to having been bullied and to the aftereffects they still suffer from. I'd never have expected such a massive, interesting and highly instructional feedback! It shows us that we are not alone. And we're beginning to feel like a group.

Also, talking about a problem is the first step to healing. It gives us a chance to let off the pressure before we explode.
And since nobody can be tough and strong all the time, whining is totally ok, imho. Everyone needs a hug at times and fishing for one doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. Particularly in this thread where there are people who have been through the same and therefore understand.

So whine away, freely

There are lots of hugs waiting. And if someone tries to bully you for whining, just give a yell and a dozen posters from this thread will take care of the bully

iguana_tonante · November 24 2012, 12:09 PM

Kestra wrote:

Nerys Ghemor wrote:

This is pretty much what I was going to say: people shouldn't whine about hearing people's stories and feelings about being bullied and characterize it as obsessing on the subject when a) the OP clearly wanted an open and frank discussion on the topic and invited contributions and b) those who don't want to hear it could see what this thread was about and had a choice whether or not to open it. It's not like it was foisted upon anybody unwillingly.

I'm sorry that you felt my contribution consisted of whining. It wasn't my intent.

Her defensiveness is exactly the behavior I and Deranged Nasat were talking about when he warned about "jeaolusly guarding and defending [your pain] as something sacred, something precious. Holding onto the pain feels comforting - it's familiar, and more than that you feel it's something you have a right to, that in letting it go you're betraying yourself or excusing what was done to you. You invest it with a moral righteousness that can be quite addictive." It's an interesting perspective on the issue, and in my opinion a worthwhile contribution to the discussion. Far from "whining".

Rhubarbodendron · November 24 2012, 12:17 PM

good point. I have to admit I never thought of that aspect. But perhaps that's because when I think of the bullies back at school, I almost immediately start to imagine how, when I meet them again one day, I'll whack them in the face so that they'll bear my fingerprints for the rests of their lives.

MacLeod · November 24 2012, 12:25 PM

Whilst maybe not the exact sentiment, a line from Star Trek V.

"You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with a wave of a magic wand. They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away! I need my pain!"

Yes, you acknowledge the pain you suffered from being bullied, and yes it's part of who you are. And everyone deals with that pain in different ways, if a particular way works for someone great, but as a society we should not judge which is the correct way. By judging or infering that we are judging a particualr way we can merely be confirming that persons worse fears.

Deranged Nasat · November 24 2012, 12:42 PM

^ That's well said, MacLeod. For my part, like Rhubarbodendron has already noted, I think this thread's been very successful.

A lot of us have shared some rather personal things, and there's nothing in here that I don't think is potentially useful or illuminating. Yes, there are different arguments concerning the degree to which we place significance on our experiences and feelings, and the healthiest approach to dealing with our pain, but I choose to see it as a cooperative endeavour. If any of the perspectives or arguments put forward here help someone else come to a healthier sense of their own esteem, then that's great. And as you say, each individual will have their own journey to make, and will navigate their way through the different arguments on the basis of what feels best for them. I hope that what feels best for each of us proves (or has proven) a good choice, and, if not, that we can find new ways to approach the issue.

Rhubarbodendron · November 24 2012, 04:01 PM

MacLeod wrote:

Whilst maybe not the exact sentiment, a line from Star Trek V.

"You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with a wave of a magic wand. They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away! I need my pain!"

I just can't resist that bait and simply must counter with a quote from Andromeda

"My pain belongs to the Divine. It is like wind; it is like water"

What really strikes me is how every poster in this thread has turned out to be extremely nice, compassionate, thoughtful and intelligent. That leaves the question: do only nice, smart and slightly shy people get bullied or do victims of bullying automatically become a bit shy, develop brains and are very nice?

sonak · November 24 2012, 05:27 PM

serious physical bullying or bullying that involves damage or destruction of personal belongings should be dealt with of course, and preferably by adults in authority. However, I do think that in our hyper-sensitive age, there's a tendency to over-protect, and have people step in for things that would have been seen as "kids being kids" in the past.

Verbal teasing can suck, and I as many others have been on the receiving end of it. But it is a natural part of going through childhood, and being in school. I don't think every insult, every mean post on Facebook, etc. is a reason for teachers or parents to get involved. It ends up teaching a kid that they have a right to expect that everyone's going to be nice to them and it gives them a false sense of security that won't last when they get out of a sheltered environment.

November 24 2012, 12:37 AM	#62
MacLeod Vice Admiral Location: Great Britain	Re: Break The Bully ^Yep it's the pyschological aspect of it. Many peope who are bullied do not dwell on it years later. But it would be foolish not to acknowledge that it has more than likely played a part in making whom you are today. I'm more or less happy with who I am today, yes I'm somewhat shy and an introvert, but I don't see the need to change just to suit others either accept me for me or not. __________________ On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.

November 24 2012, 01:57 AM	#63
Owain Taggart Commodore	Re: Break The Bully Yeah, and in fact, what the bullying has helped me learn is to be more accepting towards others, and that's an important life lesson. Kind of ironic when you think about it, but it's given me a wider appreciation for life in general. Sorry if that sounds cheesy, but it kind of gave me a new spectrum, if that makes any sense.

November 24 2012, 06:13 AM	#66
teacake Admiral Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.	Re: Break The Bully I never think about it on my own but when the topic comes up anywhere it's immediately there, not in theory but a past lived experience. The way it has affected my adult life is that if I thought my kid was being bullied and the school wasn't dealing with it I would and have turned into a ferocious tiger parent. I was going to say it makes you raise your own children to be defenders of the weak and more compassionate but I reckon 99% of parents would say that's what they do. I'm not sure what causes bullies, especially in the very early years. I'm assuming there are points scored in a schools social hierarchy by squashing lesser people. Having existed completely outside of that hierarchy for my whole school life it's still more theory than understanding for me. <--personal childhood hero __________________ Rider: I can't believe you'd kill me for a field of empty holes. J'onn: It's all I have. ■ ■ ■ Janeway does Melbourne

November 24 2012, 06:46 AM	#67
Gul Re'jal Commodore Location: Gul Re'jal is suspecting she's in the wrong tale	Re: Break The Bully I don't whine about it everyday either. But understanding what had happened to me helps me deal with the scars. It helps me to tell myself that I'm not a walking monster but that my own perception is severely warped. I'm not objective when looking at myself. I'm seeing me through their insults. Knowing it helps me heal, even if it's a very slow process. __________________ In a Cardassian library or in a Cardassian gallery? "Reagan, it appears, is really only an ardent unionist if the unions in question are in Poland" - Stephen King, Skeleton Crew

November 24 2012, 07:45 AM	#69
Rhubarbodendron Fleet Captain Location: Milky Way, outer spiral arm, Sol 3	Re: Break The Bully Just look at all the people who have come out of the closet in this thread and admitted to having been bullied and to the aftereffects they still suffer from. I'd never have expected such a massive, interesting and highly instructional feedback! It shows us that we are not alone. And we're beginning to feel like a group. Also, talking about a problem is the first step to healing. It gives us a chance to let off the pressure before we explode. And since nobody can be tough and strong all the time, whining is totally ok, imho. Everyone needs a hug at times and fishing for one doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. Particularly in this thread where there are people who have been through the same and therefore understand. So whine away, freely There are lots of hugs waiting. And if someone tries to bully you for whining, just give a yell and a dozen posters from this thread will take care of the bully __________________ Eve is the revised, improved and updated version of Adam [Helen Vita]

STAR TREK

CSI

ABOUT US

November 24 2012, 12:17 PM	#71
Rhubarbodendron Fleet Captain Location: Milky Way, outer spiral arm, Sol 3	Re: Break The Bully good point. I have to admit I never thought of that aspect. But perhaps that's because when I think of the bullies back at school, I almost immediately start to imagine how, when I meet them again one day, I'll whack them in the face so that they'll bear my fingerprints for the rests of their lives. __________________ Eve is the revised, improved and updated version of Adam [Helen Vita]

November 24 2012, 12:25 PM	#72
MacLeod Vice Admiral Location: Great Britain	Re: Break The Bully Whilst maybe not the exact sentiment, a line from Star Trek V. "You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with a wave of a magic wand. They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away! I need my pain!" Yes, you acknowledge the pain you suffered from being bullied, and yes it's part of who you are. And everyone deals with that pain in different ways, if a particular way works for someone great, but as a society we should not judge which is the correct way. By judging or infering that we are judging a particualr way we can merely be confirming that persons worse fears. __________________ On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch. Last edited by MacLeod; November 24 2012 at 01:19 PM.

November 24 2012, 12:42 PM	#73
Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Location: Warped off into the sunset. With fond memories of most of you, and not a little sorrow at leaving.	Re: Break The Bully ^ That's well said, MacLeod. For my part, like Rhubarbodendron has already noted, I think this thread's been very successful. A lot of us have shared some rather personal things, and there's nothing in here that I don't think is potentially useful or illuminating. Yes, there are different arguments concerning the degree to which we place significance on our experiences and feelings, and the healthiest approach to dealing with our pain, but I choose to see it as a cooperative endeavour. If any of the perspectives or arguments put forward here help someone else come to a healthier sense of their own esteem, then that's great. And as you say, each individual will have their own journey to make, and will navigate their way through the different arguments on the basis of what feels best for them. I hope that what feels best for each of us proves (or has proven) a good choice, and, if not, that we can find new ways to approach the issue. __________________ We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there; too much, the best of us is washed away.

November 24 2012, 05:27 PM	#75
sonak Rear Admiral Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination	Re: Break The Bully serious physical bullying or bullying that involves damage or destruction of personal belongings should be dealt with of course, and preferably by adults in authority. However, I do think that in our hyper-sensitive age, there's a tendency to over-protect, and have people step in for things that would have been seen as "kids being kids" in the past. Verbal teasing can suck, and I as many others have been on the receiving end of it. But it is a natural part of going through childhood, and being in school. I don't think every insult, every mean post on Facebook, etc. is a reason for teachers or parents to get involved. It ends up teaching a kid that they have a right to expect that everyone's going to be nice to them and it gives them a false sense of security that won't last when they get out of a sheltered environment.