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Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old November 26 2012, 09:23 PM   #151
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Re: is "Into Darkness" Quinto's last as Spock?

Does anyone else think it's rather narrow and petty to be arguing over what two or three word catch all label should be applied to various works of film and literature? Works are larger than that, at least the good ones are. Even the bad ones come to mention it.
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Old November 26 2012, 09:37 PM   #152
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Re: is "Into Darkness" Quinto's last as Spock?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
That's basically my attitude, too. Never much seen the point in trying to fit everything into neat little boxes.
No, I can't see it as being that important, or at least not always. A lot of the stuff I like won't fit neatly into little boxes anyway; that's probably a good part of the reason why I decided I liked it in the first place.

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
I'm intrigued to find out that "Speculative Fiction" dates back so far. I would have guessed the late sixties at the earliest . . . .
It certainly got a fair amount of mileage then, with people like Ellison, Damon Knight, Judith Merril, et al. Sometimes, though, what seems like a new idea may turn out to be an older one rediscovered or one invented all over again.
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Old November 26 2012, 10:19 PM   #153
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Re: is "Into Darkness" Quinto's last as Spock?

M'Sharak wrote: View Post

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
I'm intrigued to find out that "Speculative Fiction" dates back so far. I would have guessed the late sixties at the earliest . . . .
It certainly got a fair amount of mileage then, with people like Ellison, Damon Knight, Judith Merril, et al. Sometimes, though, what seems like a new idea may turn out to be an older one rediscovered or one invented all over again.
What I remember is the huge push to use the term speculative fiction instead of science fiction which still had a pulp association. Now of course we embrace the pulp. But for a while there it was seen as the way for the genre to be taken seriously.
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Old November 26 2012, 10:36 PM   #154
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Re: is "Into Darkness" Quinto's last as Spock?

teacake wrote: View Post
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Greg Cox wrote: View Post
I'm intrigued to find out that "Speculative Fiction" dates back so far. I would have guessed the late sixties at the earliest . . . .
It certainly got a fair amount of mileage then, with people like Ellison, Damon Knight, Judith Merril, et al. Sometimes, though, what seems like a new idea may turn out to be an older one rediscovered or one invented all over again.
What I remember is the huge push to use the term speculative fiction instead of science fiction which still had a pulp association. Now of course we embrace the pulp. But for a while there it was seen as the way for the genre to be taken seriously.
That makes sense, too, especially at a time when science fiction was still considered trashy, B-movie material by most adults.
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Old November 27 2012, 12:02 AM   #155
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Re: is "Into Darkness" Quinto's last as Spock?

Sindatur wrote: View Post
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Greg Cox wrote: View Post

Oh, people have been throwing "Speculative Fiction" around as an alternative definition for SF since at least the seventies, and maybe even the sixties. Not sure it ever caught on outside of academic circles . . . .
Oh, okay. Do you know why anyone felt the need to come up with that term? Something tells me that bookstores and iTunes aren't going to have a speculative fiction section anytime soon, especially if it's grouping a bunch of other genres together.
Because of the bickering about if something is Fantasy with a bit of SciFi, or SciFi with a bit of Fantasy, or Horror with a bit of SciFi.....
Well if that's what something actually is, so what? It seems to me that the term is too generic to ever catch on, but if some people choose to use it, then okay...

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Well, I can't remember who coined the term, or every critical essay I read thirty-plus years ago, but I suspect the idea was to come up with a more inclusive label that acknowledged that there was more to "science fiction" than just the whole John W. Campbell Astonishing/Analog school of nuts-and-bolts sf. There was also Bradbury and Edgar Rice Burroughs and Sturgeon and Ellison and Spinrad and Silverberg and Delany and LeGuin and Russ and so on, whose work was arguably more about the "fiction" than the "science."
Thanks for the info. The impression I get is that some people just want(ed) to appropriate everything into one category so they could feel better about liking science fiction or to make science fiction seem "normal." Personally, I don't think it's necessary. You just like what you like. Kind of reminds me of what I heard about how the term "trekker" was invented...
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Old November 27 2012, 12:04 AM   #156
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Re: is "Into Darkness" Quinto's last as Spock?

teacake wrote: View Post
M'Sharak wrote: View Post

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
I'm intrigued to find out that "Speculative Fiction" dates back so far. I would have guessed the late sixties at the earliest . . . .
It certainly got a fair amount of mileage then, with people like Ellison, Damon Knight, Judith Merril, et al. Sometimes, though, what seems like a new idea may turn out to be an older one rediscovered or one invented all over again.
What I remember is the huge push to use the term speculative fiction instead of science fiction which still had a pulp association. Now of course we embrace the pulp. But for a while there it was seen as the way for the genre to be taken seriously.
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
M'Sharak wrote: View Post

It certainly got a fair amount of mileage then, with people like Ellison, Damon Knight, Judith Merril, et al. Sometimes, though, what seems like a new idea may turn out to be an older one rediscovered or one invented all over again.
What I remember is the huge push to use the term speculative fiction instead of science fiction which still had a pulp association. Now of course we embrace the pulp. But for a while there it was seen as the way for the genre to be taken seriously.
That makes sense, too, especially at a time when science fiction was still considered trashy, B-movie material by most adults.
Had I read these comments, I would not have replied. That sums it up for me, and it fits what my impression is.

@R. Star Very true. Putting everything in one dumpster bin seems like a bad idea to me, but that's just me. If some people want to do that for their convenience, then okay, so long as bookstores, iTunes, etc. don't change because that would be a nightmare for the rest of us, I'd think.
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Old November 27 2012, 12:25 AM   #157
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Re: is "Into Darkness" Quinto's last as Spock?

Truth be told, the Speculatve Fiction is pretty much together in the Book stores I am familiar with. Down 1 aisle is what they categorize as Science Fiction, down the next aisle is what they categorize as Fantasy, next aisle over is Horror.

Alternate history and Post-Appoclyptic, are generally tossed into SciFi, but, the only thing binding them to SciFi (generally) is the Appolypse was caused by Super Science weaponary or whatever trope is used to justify telling the Alternate History.

I don't believe you'll find Star Wars in Fantasy section, even though many will say it's more Fantasy than SciFi.

So, basically, that's what Speculative Fiction is mostly used for these days, is to encapsulate what folks are referring to when they say "Genre". How many people rail on SyFy CHannel, because all they play is Fantasy and Horror (And Reality)
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Old November 27 2012, 01:07 AM   #158
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Re: is "Into Darkness" Quinto's last as Spock?

Sindatur wrote: View Post
I don't believe you'll find Star Wars in Fantasy section, even though many will say it's more Fantasy than SciFi.
That's because it's usually been housed under sci-fi/fantasy, but you can find it at Barnes and Noble's website under a few different categories. It was number 3 under Action/Adventure with Harry Potter/Snow White and the Huntsman taking the top 2 spots (both, pure fantasy).

Let's just say it doesn't matter as long as you find what you're looking for.
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Old November 27 2012, 01:25 AM   #159
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Re: is "Into Darkness" Quinto's last as Spock?

Most bookstores I've been in put Star Wars in the science fiction/fantasy shelves but in a separate section with other SF/Fantasy media tie-ins. I get my ST and SW books right off the same shelf. It's ot unusual for me to see a Star Trek and a Star Wars book sitting side by side.
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Old November 27 2012, 02:59 AM   #160
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Re: is "Into Darkness" Quinto's last as Spock?

I have a feeling that Keenser isn't gonna be in "Into Darkness", since I haven't been able to find any mentions on line about Deep Roy coming back...not in IMDB or Wikipedia or anywhere...

I guess the online issues between Roy and Pegg explain why.

That's too bad...I was hoping that Keenser would come back, and get fleshed out a little more as a character. It would be nice to have another non-human addition to the crew. (Since we aren't apparently even gonna see a nuTrek version of Arex or M'Ress...)

Btw, Deep Roy was also in Star Wars (Jedi, I think)...so he's now one of the very few actors to have played roles in Star Trek, Star Wars and Doctor Who...(though with new Star Wars coming, that list will likely increase...)
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Old November 27 2012, 03:04 AM   #161
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Re: is "Into Darkness" Quinto's last as Spock?

bryce wrote: View Post
I have a feeling that Keenser isn't gonna be in "Into Darkness", since I haven't been able to find any mentions on line about Deep Roy coming back...not in IMDB or Wikipedia or anywhere...

I guess the online issues between Roy and Pegg explain why.
Couldn't they get someone else to play Keenser? It's not like he has some distinctive voice under all that make up.
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Old November 27 2012, 03:10 AM   #162
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Re: is "Into Darkness" Quinto's last as Spock?

teacake wrote: View Post
bryce wrote: View Post
I have a feeling that Keenser isn't gonna be in "Into Darkness", since I haven't been able to find any mentions on line about Deep Roy coming back...not in IMDB or Wikipedia or anywhere...

I guess the online issues between Roy and Pegg explain why.
Couldn't they get someone else to play Keenser? It's not like he has some distinctive voice under all that make up.

Good point...
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Old November 27 2012, 06:28 PM   #163
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Re: is "Into Darkness" Quinto's last as Spock?

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I guess the online issues between Roy and Pegg explain why.
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Old November 27 2012, 06:44 PM   #164
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Re: is "Into Darkness" Quinto's last as Spock?

Ovation wrote: View Post
bryce wrote: View Post
I guess the online issues between Roy and Pegg explain why.
I'll let bryce or Wormhole produce a link for that, because the only mention I find outside of this thread is a jokey quip at ontd in connection with the vague National Enquirer gossip bit about diva behavior on-set from earlier this year.
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Old November 27 2012, 06:45 PM   #165
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Ah. So, tempest in a teapot, then.
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