Q is a pathetic loser

[Dream]

teacake wrote:

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He was just as interested in sex with Picard.

[teacake]

If only that as post coital. But I guess that is in my dreams.

[The Overlord]

teacake wrote:

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He was just as interested in sex with Picard. And you are correct, it's not how we would see it. He picks the top human on a ship and tries to make them like him. He eventually figures out that sex is the ultimate expression of liking and so if that is part of the wooing success he's up for it.

His ultimate goal is to have the human be wooed.

I still don't see why he would want to have sex with Janeway in particular. Q seemed like a wacky neighbor from a bad sit com who hits on on the female protagonist, instead of the character he was in TNG. He simply wants to produce an heir, he could have done anything, he could have appeared before some college girls in the guise of Robert Pattison or he could have used his powers to create the perfect bride. There is no good reason why Q would spend all that time trying to woo Janeway, when all he wants is a to have a child. He could that with almost any woman.


This episode just plain sucks, it contradicts almost everything we know about the Q and makes them far less interesting in the process:

http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/v853.asp

[teacake]

Ooo don't quote that sf dude to me. I will not read or watch him. If he wants my esteem let him come here and post!

He wanted Janeway and he wanted Picard because they had strong personalities and were leaders of their ships. He could have a child with a freaking farm animal if he wanted to, but the hint of mutuality is what he sought. If you're going to look for mutuality that flatters you then you start at the top.

[Dream]

The Overlord wrote:

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There is no good reason why Q would spend all that time trying to woo Janeway, when all he wants is a to have a child.

Sure he can do it way easier in other ways, but I imagine that he liked the challenge of trying to seduce Janeway. Q seems to have a thing for Starfleet captains. Why else would he have himself wearing a Captain's uniform all the time?

Also no, I doubt Q would have ever magicked the Voyager crew himself. He would have wanted them to do it themselves

I always believed the map Q gave them at the end of Q2 was his way of pointing Voyager in the direction of the Borg transwarp hub in Endgame, to take care of a problem for him (Q themselves are not to provoke them).

[The Overlord]

teacake wrote:

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Ooo don't quote that sf dude to me. I will not read him. If he wants my esteem let him come here and post!

He wanted Janeway and he wanted Picard because they had strong personalities and were leaders of their ships. He could have a child with a freaking farm animal if he wanted to, but the hint of mutuality is what he sought. If you're going to look for mutuality that flatters you than you start at the top.

He is just a reviewer, why would he come here and why would he care one way or the other about your esteem? The review does make some good points on why that episode completely sucks.

Its just stupid that Q wants to have a child because he thinks that will stop the Q civil war, but he puts all his effort into trying to sleep with Janeway, when there are millions easier ways for him to have a kid and time is a factor. Q may not be good guy but he should care about the fate of his own people, this just makes Q look incompetent, its not a well written episode. Q is only a "pathetic loser" because that episode is badly written.

Dream wrote:

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Sure he can do it way easier in other ways, but I imagine that he liked the challenge of trying to seduce Janeway. Q seems to have a thing for Starfleet captains. Why else would he have himself wearing a Captain's uniform all the time?

Also no, I doubt Q would have ever magicked the Voyager crew himself. He would have wanted them to earn it.

I always thought the map Q gave them at the end of Q2 was his way of him pointing them in the direction of the Borg transwarp hub in Endgame, to take care of a problem for him (Maybe there was a rule for the Q themselves to not provoke them).

Besides, Janeway was the Borg asskicker wasn't she?

Except Q wants a child to stop the Q civil war, so him wasting all that time trying to sleep with Janeway, when his people are destroying each other, makes him seem like an idiot. Time is a factor, so him wasting time just to satisfy his ego, when he knows knows how high the stakes are, seems out of character and is just a bad idea in general. Q trying to sleep Janeway just a really bad idea for a story. I don't think Biller gets Q, so he is out of character in his episode.

[teacake]

The Overlord wrote:

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Its just stupid that Q wants to have a child because he thinks that will stop the Q civil war, but he puts all his effort into trying to sleep with Janeway, when there are millions easier ways for him to have a kid and time is a factor. Q may not be good guy but he should care about the fate of his own people, this just makes Q look incompetent, its not a well written episode. Q is only a "pathetic loser" because that episode is badly written.

See that's the thing. He cares about his people but at the end of the day it's all about the PRIZE. The prize of winning the starship captain's bed and heart and the prize of saving his people. The prize is his ultimate goal.

This is why he is a pathetic loser.

[Mr_Homn]

The Overlord wrote:

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I don't think Q is a pathetic loser, I think the Q and the Grey is a badly written episode that doesn't get Q. Q was a better written character over in TNG then he ever was in Voyager.

This

[teacake]

It's canon so y'all are going to have to suck it up.

[Mr_Homn]

teacake wrote:

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It's canon so y'all are going to have to suck it up.

That doesn't really make any difference to me. I know terrible writing when I see it.

Voyager's Q might have been a "pathetic loser", but TNG's Q wasn't. They are different television shows with different artistic visions and different people working on them, so it's worth pointing out these inconsistencies, regardless of canon status.

[teacake]

I love existing in universe. The challenges, the perks..

Hey remember that time Trip died?

[The Overlord]

teacake wrote:

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See that's the thing. He cares about his people but at the end of the day it's all about the PRIZE. The prize of winning the starship captain's bed and heart and the prize of saving his people. The prize is his ultimate goal.

This is why he is a pathetic loser.

That's out of character, Q knows when he can indulge in such whims and when he has to get serious to fix real problems. If Q was that childish, he never would tried to help Picard in All Good things or try to teach Picard a lesson about life in Tapestry, he would have just randomly trolled Picard from time to time and never tried to help him. Q has more dimensions then that, but that Voyager episode presented Q more as a caricature, rather then a character. Q wouldn't have wasted time indulging whims when the stakes are that high, he would have gotten serious.

teacake wrote:

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It's canon so y'all are going to have to suck it up.

So is a bunch of other badly written episodes of Star Trek, it doesn't make them any less badly written. Q is just a written character in TNG, in Voyager he is a pale intimidation of himself.

[Dream]

I don't care what anyone says, but I loved the episode "Deathwish".

Q's whole MO is that he is terrible and rude with people.

I noticed that the episodes tended to revolved more around the humans in TNG, while his VOY episodes tended to focus on him.

[teacake]

And as Dream pointed out Q did in the end help Janeway and her crew.

But he enjoyed his wooing and his games before it got to that point the same as he did with Picard.

Heck if I was a Q I'd probably do the same. I'd follow you around Overlord and make quips about your minions and try and make you want me until you wished I never existed.

[The Overlord]

Dream wrote:

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I don't care what anyone says, but I loved the episode "Deathwish".

Q's whole MO is that he is terrible and rude with people.

I noticed that the episodes tended to revolved more around the humans in TNG, while his VOY episodes tended to focus on him.

Deathwish was good, but Q and the Grey was god awful. If Q only appeared in Deathwish, he would have been handled well in Voyager, its Q and the Grey that really ruined his character.

teacake wrote:

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And as Dream pointed out Q did in the end help Janeway and her crew.

But he enjoyed his wooing and his games before it got to that point the same as he did with Picard.

Heck if I was a Q I'd probably do the same. I'd follow you around Overlord and make quips about your minions and try and make you want me until you wished I never existed.

Except Q was serious at times with Picard, I don't think Q is an completely irresponsible idiot who can't take anything seriously, when stakes were high enough Q rises to the task. If he didn't, he wouldn't have helped Picard in All Good things and Tapestry. The Q destroying themselves with a civil war, there are far bigger stakes then anything before for Q, so him wasting time trying to woo Janeway makes him seem like a childish moron and ignores a lot of the character depth Q has. Q is more then just a trickster, that is the surface, there is more to him then that.