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| Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here. |
| View Poll Results: Was the ending Deus Ex Machina? | |||
| Yes |
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22 | 35.48% |
| No |
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40 | 64.52% |
| Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#1 |
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Commander
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Sacrifice of the Angels Ending A Deus Ex Machina?
Ira Steven Behr and SFDebris have defended the ending stating it's not Deus Ex Machina, but divine intervention is a hard charge to defend against when it's so blatantly used. Doesn't help that Sisko is a religious figure for the wormhole aliens and is half Prophet due to his conception. |
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#2 |
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Rear Admiral
Location: On the run.
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Re: Sacrifice of the Angels Ending A Deus Ex Machina?
If divine intervention is automatically associated with bad writing, why is the bible so popular?
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#3 |
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Writer
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Re: Sacrifice of the Angels Ending A Deus Ex Machina?
I don't think that really applies here, since the Prophets and their great power had been well established over the course of the series. It was just a question of convincing them to get involved. If they'd just chosen arbitrarily to change their policies and intervene, if they'd just swooped down out of nowhere without any setup or justification, that would be a deus ex machina. But they only got involved because Sisko, the star of the series, stood up to them and convinced them to get involved. So it was the hero's actions that were ultimately responsible for resolving the crisis. That's what keeps it from being a deus ex machina ending.
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Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Includes purchasing links for Only Superhuman, on sale now! Updated 12/30/12 with annotations for the novel. Written Worlds -- My blog |
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#4 |
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Vice Admiral
Location: Great Britain
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Re: Sacrifice of the Angels Ending A Deus Ex Machina?
I note some of the people who have voted yes, have not said why it is.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch. |
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#5 |
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Vice Admiral
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
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Re: Sacrifice of the Angels Ending A Deus Ex Machina?
Still disappointing. |
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#6 |
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Fleet Captain
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Re: Sacrifice of the Angels Ending A Deus Ex Machina?
DS9 went off the rockers with the wormhole/religious junk. Making Sisko part prophet was another poor move I thought.
__________________
I'd rather watch Star Trek: V and Nemesis a thousand times than be subjected to Abrams Trek again. |
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#7 |
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Captain
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Re: Sacrifice of the Angels Ending A Deus Ex Machina?
Memory Alpha quotes Ira Steven Behr from the DS9 Companion: "I felt it was the perfect next step in the evolution of the relationship between Sisko and the Prophets that began in the pilot. Hearing people refer to it as some dopey deus ex machina is really annoying because I would think they'd give us more credit for being on the ball. We didn't have to end it like that, we chose to end it like that. Because we wanted to say that there was something going on here. And ultimately, that would lead to our finding out that Sisko is part-Prophet. They wouldn't have done this for just anyone. This was the man going out into the wilderness and demanding God to interfere, to do something for crying out loud. The corporeal characters had done so much in the episode; surely they'd earned the help of the gods." |
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#8 |
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Writer
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Re: Sacrifice of the Angels Ending A Deus Ex Machina?
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Includes purchasing links for Only Superhuman, on sale now! Updated 12/30/12 with annotations for the novel. Written Worlds -- My blog |
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#9 |
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Rear Admiral
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
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Re: Sacrifice of the Angels Ending A Deus Ex Machina?
However, deus ex machina or not, it was a dramatically poor way of ending the arc. Having the protagonists beg the "Gods" to save the day for them is just not very effective storytelling. I never liked the "turning the wormhole aliens into literal Prophets" storyline, and this episode's resolution is one of the reasons why. |
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#10 |
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Vice Admiral
Location: Great Britain
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Re: Sacrifice of the Angels Ending A Deus Ex Machina?
Is it a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object. If we take that as the definition. So sure it could be said to be contrived and unexpected, but there is no new event, character or ability at play. So it fails that definition. Perhaps some people believe it to be a deus ex machnia bec ause it was a contrived ending
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On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch. |
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#11 |
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Admiral
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Re: Sacrifice of the Angels Ending A Deus Ex Machina?
It was as much a Deus Ex Machina ending as Q's actions at the end of "Q Who" were. That also had another abrupt ending, but it was something that everyone could see coming. |
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#12 | |
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Rear Admiral
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
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Re: Sacrifice of the Angels Ending A Deus Ex Machina?
different scenario. Q CREATED the crisis in "Q Who," he was just fixing his own mess. The Prophets didn't start the Dominion War, nor did they cause the occupation of DS9. They were fixing the Federation's mess there. |
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#13 |
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Commodore
Location: South Dakota
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Re: Sacrifice of the Angels Ending A Deus Ex Machina?
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#14 |
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Lieutenant Commander
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Re: Sacrifice of the Angels Ending A Deus Ex Machina?
It's also worth considering I think, that Sisko didn't simply ask and get what he wanted. It came with a price, which the Prophets came looking for when the time was right. He had to pay for their help and in doing so, was separated from his family and friends. So it's not like the Prophets stepping in to save the day, was completely out of the blue and had no lasting effect. For me, if the prophets had never been mentioned or never gotten involved in anything before then, and the moment of facing all those ships was the point of their discovery and Sisko was able to convince them to get involved, and then they never returned to do anything ever again....that would have made it a Deus Ex Machina. That's not how it played out though and as such, to me at least, it felt natural....at least as natural as non-linear wormhole aliens suddenly making 2800 Dominion ships vanish into nothingness, possibly can be.
__________________
“I was here,” says Man. “Prove it,” says the Universe.” Method of Life, a post apocalyptic sci-fi ebook available on Amazon.
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#15 |
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Vice Admiral
Location: Great Britain
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Re: Sacrifice of the Angels Ending A Deus Ex Machina?
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch. |
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