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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old November 7 2012, 11:06 PM   #1
hbquikcomjamesl
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You can't think a man to death . . . or can you?

Just a crazy thought: in Catspaw, we have this exchange:
SYLVIA: . . . You wondered what killed [Jackson]. I made an image of him. In the essence of my thoughts the image was Jackson. And when I killed the image and knew that it was dead, he died.
KIRK: You can't think a man to death.
And yet, in Diane Duane's exploration of ancient Vulcan history, up through the Romulan Exodus, and of the Romulan Exodus itself (not to mention other writers' explorations of those periods), we find people who can think a man to death.

Any (preferably non-lethal) thoughts?
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Old November 7 2012, 11:33 PM   #2
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Re: You can't think a man to death . . . or can you?

Canonically, per "Gambit," Vulcans could "think a [person] to death" if their telepathy were amplified by the Stone of Gol.

It's worth noting that Sylvia was fudging the truth a bit; she and Korob needed their transmuters to turn their thoughts into reality. If anything, I daresay that it was the transmuter that killed Jackson; Sylvia's thoughts just provided its instructions, in the ultimate user-friendly interface.
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Old November 8 2012, 02:41 AM   #3
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: You can't think a man to death . . . or can you?

Christopher wrote: View Post
Canonically, per "Gambit," Vulcans could "think a [person] to death" if their telepathy were amplified by the Stone of Gol.
There's also the ancient Kolinahr Master from The Lost Years. IIRC, he melted a guy with his brain. And he didn't need a stone to help him do it.

IIRC, there were more weaponized telepathy-enhancing stones in the Myriad Universes story Tears of Eridanus.
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Old November 8 2012, 04:50 AM   #4
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Re: You can't think a man to death . . . or can you?

Yep, that's right. I think it's the Pebble of Gol.
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Old November 8 2012, 04:27 PM   #5
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Re: You can't think a man to death . . . or can you?

Quite possibly true masters scorn the use of artificial aids, while clever modern whippersnappers scorn the decades-long dedication to higher learning, ancient wisdom and other such nonsense... But both breeds go extinct easily enough, because masters are a rare resource on the verge of dying of old age already, while artificial aids may be difficult to manufacture unless you have some ancient wisdom at hand to help with the process! And unfortunately for the Romulans, they lost both their masters and their rock collection.

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Old November 8 2012, 04:46 PM   #6
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Re: You can't think a man to death . . . or can you?

I'm going just from memory here, but didn't the "Battle of Betazed" have this kind of scenario in it?
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Old November 8 2012, 05:35 PM   #7
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: You can't think a man to death . . . or can you?

Let's not forget the poor Husnock in Next Gen's "The Survivors"
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Old November 8 2012, 11:07 PM   #8
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Re: You can't think a man to death . . . or can you?

E-DUB wrote: View Post
I'm going just from memory here, but didn't the "Battle of Betazed" have this kind of scenario in it?
Yep.
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Old November 9 2012, 01:00 AM   #9
Tiberius
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Re: You can't think a man to death . . . or can you?

Christopher wrote: View Post
Canonically, per "Gambit," Vulcans could "think a [person] to death" if their telepathy were amplified by the Stone of Gol.
Technically, weren't the victims thinking themselves to death?
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Old November 9 2012, 04:50 AM   #10
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Re: You can't think a man to death . . . or can you?

^ If they had violent thoughts at the time, yes.

Which is why Surak's philosophy worked: since he preached emotional control, the Stone was useless against him and his followers, because they had no violence in their minds.
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Old November 9 2012, 08:19 AM   #11
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Re: You can't think a man to death . . . or can you?

There is also Kes.
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Old November 9 2012, 12:43 PM   #12
Timo
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Re: You can't think a man to death . . . or can you?

And this mysterious but deadly group only known as the Writers...

Although the comparable group of the Audience has been known to attempt to kill by thought, Wesley Crusher still supposedly survives.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old November 9 2012, 02:08 PM   #13
Deranged Nasat
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Re: You can't think a man to death . . . or can you?

Timo wrote: View Post
And this mysterious but deadly group only known as the Writers...

Although the comparable group of the Audience has been known to attempt to kill by thought, Wesley Crusher still supposedly survives.

Timo Saloniemi


Not only does Wesley survive, he actually ascended to a higher plane of existence. Which suggests that the Audience's efforts to kill him may have backfired. Their hatred only makes him more powerful!
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Old November 9 2012, 07:34 PM   #14
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Re: You can't think a man to death . . . or can you?

Well, to be fair, Kirk wouldn't necessarily know about any examples from the NextGen era . . ..
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Old November 10 2012, 08:30 AM   #15
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Re: You can't think a man to death . . . or can you?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Well, to be fair, Kirk wouldn't necessarily know about any examples from the NextGen era . . ..
And it's not obviious, either, that Kirk wasn't in fact familiar with examples of lethal mentally-directed weapons and was simply engaging his captor.
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