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Old November 1 2012, 12:13 PM   #16
JarodRussell
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Re: Dexter and what he does.

Sci wrote: View Post
There's nothing good or moral about a serial killer. What Dexter does is murder, pure and simple.
This.

And he is already responsible for the death of a lot of innocent people, which didn't stop him.


I don't think ANY of you would applaud a serial killer psycho vigilante to run around your neighborhood, chopping people into pieces.


So I never saw any appeal in that show.
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Old November 1 2012, 01:31 PM   #17
Mister Fandango
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Re: Dexter and what he does.

Sci wrote: View Post
There's nothing good or moral about a serial killer. What Dexter does is murder, pure and simple.
Dexter is little different than the guy who pulls the switch or injects the poison into a death row prisoner. They perform murder on a regular basis and even get paid handsomely for it.

With a few exceptions, Dexter goes out of his way to make sure his victims deserve what he does to them. Again, it's no different than the legal system. We only deem that acceptable because, honestly, we have no real choice in the matter. Whether there's a judge, a jury, or a random shootout on the streets that kills innocent bystandards, it's all the same in principle. Dexter simply doesn't follow those laws.

And while he's also a serial killer by definition, he doesn't target random or innocent people. There's a huge difference, which is exactly why he's so much easier to sympathize with as a character.
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Old November 1 2012, 11:55 PM   #18
Snowlilly
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Re: Dexter and what he does.

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
There's nothing good or moral about a serial killer. What Dexter does is murder, pure and simple.
This.

And he is already responsible for the death of a lot of innocent people, which didn't stop him.


I don't think ANY of you would applaud a serial killer psycho vigilante to run around your neighborhood, chopping people into pieces.


So I never saw any appeal in that show.
Oh I dunno, I suppose if I had a family member killed by someone and they got off scot free on a dang technicality, I might definitely support that.
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Old November 2 2012, 01:56 AM   #19
George Steinbrenner
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Re: Dexter and what he does.

Snowlilly wrote: View Post
I suppose if I had a family member killed by someone and they got off scot free on a dang technicality, I might definitely support that.
Then you would be no better than the person who killed that family member.

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
Dexter is little different than the guy who pulls the switch or injects the poison into a death row prisoner. They perform murder on a regular basis and even get paid handsomely for it.
It's not murder. As much as I hate the death penalty, it is a recognized part of the legal system. It IS the system. It is subject to laws, and due process. Neither of which apply to Dexter. He kills who he WANTS to kill.

With a few exceptions, Dexter goes out of his way to make sure his victims deserve what he does to them.
It's not his call to make.

Again, it's no different than the legal system.
It's very different, of course. Dexter may follow, or claim to follow, his own personal code, but that is subject to his own whims and desires. He is not beholden to a legal precedent. He is not bound by law. (The only law that matters is the law that society has put in place. His own personal desires are irrelevant. A personal code can change in a second; the law can only change when the people allow it.)

Dexter simply doesn't follow those laws.
No one gave him the right not to.

And while he's also a serial killer by definition, he doesn't target random or innocent people.
About that: 1) I don't fucking care WHO he targets. 2) He may not target innocent people NOW, but he could if he felt like it. Do you realize how dangerous that is? Never mind the damn code - Dexter simply kills whoever he wants to. Nothing can be more dangerous to a civilized and ordered society. He may claim to target only criminals now, but one day he may decide to kill the next person he sees just because he doesn't like the way they look at him, or the hat they're wearing, or how revealing their clothes are, or anything like that. Does that sound like a society you want to live in? Where you could be his next target?

And in the end, everyone - even the most dangerous criminals who ever lived - deserves a fair trial. Dexter will not give them one. He allows no opportunity for self defense or representation. He is simply chaos.
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Last edited by George Steinbrenner; November 2 2012 at 02:07 AM.
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Old November 2 2012, 02:22 AM   #20
stj
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Re: Dexter and what he does.

Dexter executes criminals who deserve to die. The show didn't worry excessively about Jimmy Smits' brother. It didn't worry at all about the guy in the RR because he was incredibly obnoxious when Dexter was grieving. Kicking Our Hero when he was down? How very satisfying to see the worthless fuck get his!

Rita was killed off as a process of turning the show into nothing but vicarious murder of people the viewer is presumed not to like. That's the show's premise, therefore he is always able to find his prey, kill his prey and escape capture. Since that's all that's going on, it doesn't matter how ludicrous the script is.

It was something else in the beginning, a comedy about a crazy man who was going sane. There was the comedy of a man so clueless he thought he was a monster nevertheless heroically committing to being the best brother and lover he could be. Angel was the moral center of the show. LaGuerta was the center of a sharply observed workplace drama about another pursuit of criminals and "justice" that, ironically, had no code, not even Harry's deranged imposition on Dexter.

But in one sense criticizing what Dexter does now is foolish. What he does is about a meaningful as a Superman catching bank robbers.
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Old November 2 2012, 02:25 AM   #21
George Steinbrenner
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Re: Dexter and what he does.

stj wrote: View Post
Dexter executes criminals who deserve to die.
Quite a problem, really. It is not his place to determine who deserves to die.
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Old November 2 2012, 02:46 AM   #22
stj
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Re: Dexter and what he does.

^^^You're right, except that's taking the scripts seriously. The writers have determined who deserves to die. Dexter is just a plot puppet to deliver their pandering to revenge fantsties. Dexter isn't a skewed perspective on our world, trying to reveal the old in a superficial guise of the new. It's navel gazing, day dreaming, masturbation. Criticizing Dexter's approach to social justce is like criticizing the decor in a wet dream.
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Old November 2 2012, 03:28 AM   #23
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Re: Dexter and what he does.

In Soilient Green, the houses of minor officials and higher, came with sanctioned prostitutes called "furniture" which was about as dehumanizing as calling the sex opponents in your dreams STJ "decor".
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Old November 2 2012, 04:37 AM   #24
Mister Fandango
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Re: Dexter and what he does.

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
It is not his place to determine who deserves to die.
As determined by... who?

You're missing the point. You happen to agree that the legal system is justified in carrying out the premeditated murder of those it deems otherwise irredeemable. Mistakes are made. Innocents are murdered. Accidents happen.

That's exactly what Dexter does. The only real difference is that he follows a code of conduct designed for him by his father, whereas the American legal system follows a code of conduct designed by the founding fathers, and the legal systems of other countries were designed by theirs... several of which are far more barbaric and corrupt than what Dexter does. All of them, however, are completely arbitrary systems that just happened to be agreed upon by those who also agreed to follow those laws.

You don't agree with Dexter's code? That's fine. Lots of people don't agree with [country of choice]'s legal system, including many [citizens of your country of choice]. It's no different, other than you happen to disagree with it.

Dexter hunts the worse of the worst and removes them from society. Plain and simple.
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Old November 2 2012, 05:33 AM   #25
stj
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Re: Dexter and what he does.

^^^Also misses the point. The script hunts down killers. There is either accept the premises or don't. But there is no criticize against any standards, because the show doesn't use any, not since third season at the very latest.
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Old November 2 2012, 06:18 AM   #26
Sci
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Re: Dexter and what he does.

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
There's nothing good or moral about a serial killer. What Dexter does is murder, pure and simple.
Dexter is little different than the guy who pulls the switch or injects the poison into a death row prisoner.
1. I don't accept the right of the state to execute criminals. I oppose the death penalty and strongly favor is abolition.

2. Dexter does not give his victims a trial by their peers during which they are entitled to a legal defense. Those people have a right to a trial and a legal defense, and he is violating their rights by murdering them.

3. The legal system is fundamentally different from an act of vigilante murder, because the legal system functions as a result of a democratic mandate. Until the United States ratifies in a democratic referendum a new Constitution granting to Dexter the exclusive right to investigate, judge, and executive the accused, what Dexter does is fundamentally illegitimate. It's just another act of murder, and Dexter deserves to be arrested and tried for his crimes.
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Old November 2 2012, 12:08 PM   #27
George Steinbrenner
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Re: Dexter and what he does.

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
It is not his place to determine who deserves to die.
As determined by... who?
Law enforcement and the courts, who are the only entities with the right to do so.

Dexter's code has no right to exist, because he is not the government. Only the government has the right to institute laws and systems of punishment for breaking them. Only the legal system's code matters. That's the end of it, really.
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Old November 2 2012, 01:04 PM   #28
Marten
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Re: Dexter and what he does.

Dexter is a legal system, just like the courts, judges, police, etc is one. There are rules, there are consequences. One may argue that Dexter is wrong, but until he's stopped, it will constitute a legal system. There are many legal systems which I do not like, but they are there none the less. And nothing stops two system from working parallell to each other, for example a criminal gang may have their own set of rules and punishments, while at the same being subject to the law of the state.
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Old November 2 2012, 02:34 PM   #29
Mister Fandango
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Re: Dexter and what he does.

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Law enforcement and the courts, who are the only entities with the right to do so.
Says who?

(In case you haven't caught on, I can keep doing this all day. Again: It's a completely arbitrary system, just one you happen to agree with and, for whatever reason, refuse to acknowledge as anything but. [Hint: The United States of America isn't the center of the universe.])
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Old November 2 2012, 04:52 PM   #30
George Steinbrenner
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Re: Dexter and what he does.

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Law enforcement and the courts, who are the only entities with the right to do so.
Says who?
Says civilization.
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