RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,218
Posts: 5,437,858
Members: 24,953
Currently online: 415
Newest member: Kavanc

TrekToday headlines

Cumberbatch In Wax
By: T'Bonz on Oct 24

Trek Screenwriter Washington D.C. Appearance
By: T'Bonz on Oct 23

Two Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Oct 22

Pine In New Skit
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

Stewart In Holiday Film
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Tech

Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 2 2012, 08:35 AM   #1
Albertese
Commodore
 
Albertese's Avatar
 
Location: Portland, OR
"Enemy Within" Transporter Question

I have a question about the transporter from the episode "The Enemy Within" and it's not that question!

When Spock nerve pinches Evil-Kirk in the engineering set, Evil Kirk misses his shot on Good-Kirk and instead punched a pretty hole in a big column that was never there before and never appears again. (I suppose we're to assume it was always there but the camera just never panned over that far.)

Scotty evaluates the damage...

Scotty says:
"Mister Scott, sir, on the lower level of the Engineering deck. I've found a new trouble with the transporter. The casing has a wide gap ripped in it. The main circuits have been burned through. The abort control circuit is gone altogether."
So my question is what's the deal with this column? Does it attach to something above or below (or both)? Scotty seems to identify this gadget as the transporter. So what capacity does it serve? There is clearly more than one transporter station aboard the ship, but, presumably, all transporters utilize this column? Which also contains the abort control circuit for all transporter units?

I'm sure I'm not the only one who's thought about this. I've had my ideas before, but I'm working on a project which is making me revisit my earlier musings.

Thoughts?

--Alex
__________________
Check out my website: www.goldtoothstudio.squarespace.com
Albertese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 02:18 PM   #2
Pauln6
Rear Admiral
 
Pauln6's Avatar
 
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Re: "Enemy Within" Transporter Question

Transporter mechanics were quite basic in TOS. They layered in the technobabble much later. If I had to guess, I would say that the annular confinement beam is something produced by the ship regardless of which transporter room is being used. This makes sense in story too, as nobody could be beamed up without risking catastrophic loss of data resulting in disability or death.
__________________
Star Trek/Babylon 5/Alien crossover www.youtube.com/user/pauln6

Other Worlds Role Playing Game
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/produc...ducts_id=97631
Pauln6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 06:06 PM   #3
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: "Enemy Within" Transporter Question

My guess is that the column's transporter main circuits adds or subtracts energy (the ionizer) to the transportee's stream by using the main engines as a buffer/reservoir.

If there isn't enough power to do so or not enough capacity to absorb the extra energy then the abort control circuit would safely prevent the transporter from accidentally scrambling the transportee on arrival.

I derived this guess from Scotty's solution to run circuits to the impulse engines to perform the same task. I suppose for whatever reason, it would have taken too long to run the bypass to the main engines (or too dangerous without an abort circuit that can handle the main engines extra power)...
SCOTT: Mister Scott, sir, on the lower level of the Engineering deck. I've found a new trouble with the transporter. The casing has a wide gap ripped in it. The main circuits have been burned through. The abort control circuit is gone altogether
...
KIRK: That unit, Scotty, status report.
SCOTT: The transporter unit ionizer. Nothing much left of it, sir.
KIRK: How bad is it?
SCOTT: We can't repair it in less than a week.
...
SCOTT: We've found a way to get the transporter working, sir.
SPOCK: We've attached some bypass and leader circuits to compensate for the difference. Tied directly into the impulse engines, there shouldn't be more than a five point variation in the velocity balance. I suggest we send the animal through.
blssdwlf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 07:21 PM   #4
TIN_MAN
Fleet Captain
 
TIN_MAN's Avatar
 
Re: "Enemy Within" Transporter Question

The thing that always bugged me is why nobody ever promptly told Scotty that "evil Kirk" blasted a whole in his power conduit, and he needed to discover this on his own, apparently?

But as for the OP's question, I would say this is a main power trunk running to several high energy systems on board, and not just the transporters?
TIN_MAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 01:42 AM   #5
FKnight
Commander
 
FKnight's Avatar
 
Re: "Enemy Within" Transporter Question

TIN_MAN wrote: View Post
The thing that always bugged me is why nobody ever promptly told Scotty that "evil Kirk" blasted a whole in his power conduit, and he needed to discover this on his own, apparently?
I actually laugh a little bit every time I see this scene actually. Evil-Kirk blows a hole in the transporter ionizer, then a little while later, we have Scotty apparently discovering the hole and explaining it to the Captain, and the Captain not even offering, "oh yeah, Evil Kirk blew it up."

"Hey Spock, we won't tell Scotty that your nerve pinch caused Evil Kirk's muscle to spasm and fire the phaser into the transporter. Maybe he won't notice."
__________________
"You have been examined. Your ship must be destroyed. We make assumption you have a deity, or deities, or some such beliefs which comfort you. We therefore grant you ten Earth time periods known as minutes to make preparations."
FKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 04:55 AM   #6
TIN_MAN
Fleet Captain
 
TIN_MAN's Avatar
 
Re: "Enemy Within" Transporter Question

^^ Yeah, they were probably afraid He’d have a conniption fit!
TIN_MAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 07:09 AM   #7
Captain Rob
Commodore
 
Captain Rob's Avatar
 
Re: "Enemy Within" Transporter Question

A different question.
Why didn't they just beam down some good old fashioned blankets? If they get duplicated, the more the better. I don't think that there's such a thing as a evil blanket.
__________________
Regal Entertainment Group murdered United Artists
Captain Rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 09:23 AM   #8
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: "Enemy Within" Transporter Question

Tied directly into the impulse engines, there shouldn't be more than a five point variation in the velocity balance.
Sounds like an issue with the ability to add or subtract transportee momentum all right! I'll buy that rationalization.

Why didn't they just beam down some good old fashioned blankets? If they get duplicated, the more the better.
Nothing they could have beamed down would have been of any help. The landing party would die unless beamed up - blankets, hot cocoa and whatnot would just delay the inevitable.

That was the whole point of the plot. Everything our heroes did was too little, too late: while the split Kirk prevaricated and procrastinated, doubted and delayed, things escalated so that what had looked like a minor inconvenience gradually became more major and ultimately life-threatening. Beaming down blankets during the first few minutes of the adventure might have been nice, but six hours into the adventure the blankets would have done no good. (Indeed, at that point, the landing party did have blankets - they wrapped themselves into the canvas of their tent.)

It's the tragedy with any escalating plot: when the end credits roll, the audience goes "they were so stupid - doing X and Y in the first place would have saved them all the trouble!". But that's unfair, because the heroes "in the first place" had no way of knowing that doing X or Y would be necessary, let alone urgent. There would have been no logic in beaming down blankets at the point of the plot where the transporter still worked but was known to be unable to send down the more complex things needed for ultimate survival. Not unless the heroes knew in advance that the transporters would utterly fail in a few moments!

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 10:43 AM   #9
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: "Enemy Within" Transporter Question

Albertese wrote: View Post
"So my question is what's the deal with this column? Does it attach to something above or below (or both)?"
It could also have a 90° angle overhead (unseen) that attaches to the bow or the stern.

Albertese wrote: View Post
"Scotty seems to identify this gadget as the transporter. So what capacity does it serve? There is clearly more than one transporter station aboard the ship, but, presumably, all transporters utilize this column? Which also contains the abort control circuit for all transporter units?"
In my recent deck plan drafts for the engineering hull (http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=195496) you'll notice that the transporter room location from The Enemy Within is more or less at the same spot a few decks below the warp engine room to roughly allign with this column - in case that column were only responsible for this transporter I wanted to be on the safe side.

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 02:16 PM   #10
Forbin
Admiral
 
Forbin's Avatar
 
Location: I said out, dammit!
Re: "Enemy Within" Transporter Question

TIN_MAN wrote: View Post
The thing that always bugged me is why nobody ever promptly told Scotty that "evil Kirk" blasted a whole in his power conduit, and he needed to discover this on his own, apparently?
This!!!!
Forbin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 03:15 PM   #11
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: "Enemy Within" Transporter Question

Well, the "good" Kirk was extremely preoccupied with nobody finding out about his "evil" half, even after giving a shipwide announcement about the existence of an impostor. He would probably have been principally concerned with getting the "evil" Kirk out of sight and to the sickbay unnoticed - and right after that was accomplished, Scotty called him.

Remember that not only is Kirk failing to give relevant orders, but Spock is also concentrating all his attention on the hunt for the double and on the effort to protect Kirk's authority, just as ordered by the "good" half. Neither of the two would be concerned with transporters or the survival of the landing party at that point. It's a glaring oversight - but one made by the characters, in character.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 03:40 PM   #12
GSchnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
 
GSchnitzer's Avatar
 
Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA, Terra
Send a message via AIM to GSchnitzer Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to GSchnitzer Send a message via Yahoo to GSchnitzer
Re: "Enemy Within" Transporter Question

From a previous post....

The main reason why they couldn't beam down blankets is because the transporters weren't working at all (ship-wide) for most of the episode. The Evil Kirk Double shot a big hole in the transporter systems' circuitry casing when Spock nerve pinched him:

SCOTT

Mr. Scott, sir, on the lower level of the
engineering deck. I found the new trouble
with the transporter. The casing has a
gap ripped in it. The main circuits have been
burned through. The abort control circuit
is gone altogether....The transporter unit
ionizer--Nothing much left of it, sir....We can't
repair it in less than a week.


So although they discovered that the transporters were duplicating people and things in the middle of Act One, by the middle of Act Two, it was a whole new ballgame with the transporters and they weren't working at all.

Why didn't Kirk beam down a whole bunch of blankets in that short interval after they discovered the duplicating problem but before the transporters stopped working altogether? Well, because the "Good Kirk" was already losing his power of command and wasn't thinking clearly. In fact, even after the transporters circuitry was damaged by the phaser fire, Good Kirk never even thought to mention this new damage to Scotty. Here's some pretty interesting dialog from the actual Final Draft shooting script that didn't make it to the final episode:

KIRK

Haven't you checked all the circuits yet, Scotty?

SCOTT

Yes, sir, we have. And we'd thought we found
the trouble. Now something else has gone wrong.

KIRK

What?

SCOTT

We don't know, sir. We're checking on it now.


And then after Scotty does finally track down the problem, here's what he has to say in the Final Draft shooting script:

SCOTT

Mr. Scott, sir. I'm on the lower level of the
engineering deck. I've just found the new

trouble with the Transporter. The Transporter
Ionizer Unit has been mangled! Looks as if a
phaser gun's been fired at it.


So, Kirk hadn't even mentioned the problem to Scotty, even though Kirk saw the whole thing happen and knew about the problem; clearly Kirk was already becoming forgetful, neglectful, and preoccupied. Poor Scotty had to hunt down the cause this new transporter problem even though Kirk saw it happen!

So, why were no additional blankets beamed down? Because during the very short window of opportunity they had to beam down any blankets, Kirk wasn't thinking straight (and then all the transporters stopped working altogether).

In looking at the terrain of Alfa 177, it looks pretty rocky with high crosswinds. I don't think there's a place to set a shuttlecraft down within hundreds of miles of Sulu's survey team. It might have been possible, but as I mentioned,the Kirks weren't thinking very clearly that day. Even if using a shuttlecraft were possible, the poor, incapacitated Kirk "slowly losing the power of command" didn't think of it.
__________________
Greg Schnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
Star Trek Phase II
http://www.startrekphase2.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3348883/
GSchnitzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 04:16 PM   #13
Albertese
Commodore
 
Albertese's Avatar
 
Location: Portland, OR
Re: "Enemy Within" Transporter Question

I never saw this as Scotty discovering the phaser burns totally on his own, is if no one told him there was a problem there and he stumbled over it. I had always assumed that, off-camera, Spock told him "We've captured the intruder on the Engineering deck and there was some phaser fire. Check out the damage," and it happened that the shot had hit the transporter gizmos, so Scotty reports it.

In any case, I really like GSchnitzer's appraisal of the whole situation. That makes the most sense to me.

So it seems as though this column probably has a number of high energy systems attached to it, as TIN_MAN has suggested. I suppose it's reasonable that the transporter draws power from the same circuit as the engines and the regulatory hardware would be there for all transporter stations. It is a single point of failure, true, but I suppose the engineers who designed it never counted on a high-powered phaser shot coming at it. After all, what sort of stresses would that particular room be subject to, normally? If there was an explosion, there might be risk of shrapnel, but then the materials of the column may be rated to withstand that sort of thing. If there's a a big, bad explosion, like one of the anti-matter reactors going up, then who cares if the transporter still works, since basically your whole ship is done.

I'm working on my own Enterprise deckplans and I've been trying to reckon where this column ought to go. So far, I've placed it so it's actually a long structure running from the doohicky on top of the back of the saucer over the impulse deck and running down the neck and into the engineering hull to the main power generation areas.

What I'm still vascilating on is what deck this particular length of this column lies on. Part of me thinks the creator's were still thinking of the engineering room set being on the aft end of the saucer, but there was dialogue that established that Evil-Kirk was going to the lower levels. This column as I have it passes through a bunch of decks, there could be the required Engineering room anywhere...

--Alex
__________________
Check out my website: www.goldtoothstudio.squarespace.com
Albertese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 04:42 PM   #14
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: "Enemy Within" Transporter Question

I suppose it's reasonable that the transporter draws power from the same circuit as the engines
In TOS, perhaps - but the other shows suggest the transporter actually consumes relatively little power (it's once powered by a single hand phaser, whereas a shuttlecraft needs to drain several of those to lift off) and can keep on working when many principal systems are down.

Since Scotty speaks of velocity balance variation, and probably isn't referring to the velocity of the ship (since they aren't going anywhere) but to transporters (because his report is all about repairing those), blssdwlf's idea that these wires transfer excess momentum between the transporter and the engines is a pretty fitting one.

Still, it's a bit of cabling. Scotty could bypass it in a heartbeat, tearing out matching wiring from the nearest piece of less vital machinery. So I'd argue that the damage to the wiring was more or less irrelevant, and so thus is its placement, too. What matters is that firing a phaser at those cables fried the ionizer (by sending a spike, or by cutting vital power that kept the ionizer from being fried), a machine that is located somewhere else altogether.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 09:26 PM   #15
Albertese
Commodore
 
Albertese's Avatar
 
Location: Portland, OR
Re: "Enemy Within" Transporter Question

Timo wrote: View Post
...

Since Scotty speaks of velocity balance variation, and probably isn't referring to the velocity of the ship (since they aren't going anywhere) but to transporters (because his report is all about repairing those), blssdwlf's idea that these wires transfer excess momentum between the transporter and the engines is a pretty fitting one.

...

Timo Saloniemi
Run this by me again. I don't understand the whole "transfer excess momentum" business. How would this be done? Why would this be important?

Also, the ship indeed is moving as it's orbiting the planet. So the position of the landing party and the Enterprise would be a constant variable. However, I guess now I have to ask what this whole "velocity balance" business is about. Mr. Scott mentions it as a factor when they are reintegrating the poodle-slug. I don't get the impression that they are beaming it to someplace and then bringing it back, but, rather, simply dematerializing it and rematerializing it, hopefully in one body. So, given that the only thing involved here is the one transporter pad, what velocity are we even talking about?

--Alex
__________________
Check out my website: www.goldtoothstudio.squarespace.com
Albertese is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:57 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.