Skyfall - Grading & Discussion

[trevanian]

MacLeod wrote:

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Erm didn't Silva want to be captured, so he could be brought to London and kill M?

So one could argue that leaving details on a mobile phone was part of that plan to be captured.

But in general films do have plot holes.

The cellphone thing is from CR, not SF.

But the whole Silva wanting to be captured thing seems invalidated by his not clueing HIS OWN THUGS in on the fact, since they are trying to kill Bond in the komodo dragon scene. Would have kind of messed this up, huh?

[TedShatner10]

Why do people assume Silva would plan the sequence of events every step of the way when it seemed like his organisation was much more powerful/wealthy than it first appeared and he had multiple plans put in place throughout the world to service his insanely egotistical plan of hugely humiliating M in the media spotlight before killing her? And also his "magical" hacking abilities of MI6 property could've been Silva's henchmen (who were good at disguises, infiltration, and bomb planting in the Underground segment) physically plugged Silva's computer cables directly into the building utilities and internal systems under the noses of MI6 staff (pretending to be janitors, repairmen, rennovators, etc).

[Professor Zoom]

TedShatner10 wrote:

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Why do people assume Silva would plan the sequence of events every step of the way when it seemed like his organisation was much more powerful/wealthy than it first appeared and he had multiple plans put in place throughout the world to service his insanely egotistical plan of hugely humiliating M in the media spotlight before killing her?

Because we watched the movie. And it was his plan to get captured. It's not an assumption.

And besides, it would've been much easier to kill her in her house. The humiliation of MI6 could've still happened--and in fact it WAS happening with the release of the agents names and their deaths... and then Silva could've walked into her house, woke her up, and then put two bullets into her brain.

[TedShatner10]

Professor Zoom wrote:

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Because we watched the movie. And it was his plan to get captured. It's not an assumption.

That was Q's assumption in the heat of a crisis when he saw Silva's escape plan on the laptop. And if Silva was locked inside a normal cell (and not that space aged fish tank) I assume dozens of his men would've stormed the MI6 bunker instead to get him out.

And if Bond was vitally important to Silva in his mess of a plan how come Silva carried on with his plan to undermine the Secret Service and M after Bond was pretty much confirmed dead by M (and also informed by his henchman who stole the hard drive McGuffin and grappled with Bond)?

[Professor Zoom]

TedShatner10 wrote:

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That was Q's assumption in the heat of a crisis when he saw Silva's escape plan on the laptop.

That was Q explaining it for us. Because it was such a silly plan.

And if Silva was locked inside a normal cell (and not that space aged fish tank) I assume dozens of his men would've stormed the MI6 bunker instead to get him out.

It's interesting... for this particular plan (if we go with the idea he had more than one...which he didn't) he HAD to be locked in the fish tank...

But, let's go with your idea... that he was locked in a normal cell... how would his men know? Are they sitting around waiting for a phone call? "Hey, it's me. Silva. Yeah. We're not going with the fish tank plan... Yeah. They put me in a normal cell. Yeah. I know. I had that computer virus all set to go... Sigh. Anyway... get your men and try to attack..."

The harsh reality: this was a poorly plotted film and you can justify it all you want, but it requires making up stuff that's not in the film.

And if Bond was vitally important to Silva in his mess of a plan how come Silva carried on with his plan to undermine the Secret Service and M after Bond was pretty much confirmed dead by M (and also informed by his henchman who stole the hard drive McGuffin and grappled with Bond)?

But Bond ISN'T important to Silva's plan, he's only important to the film. Any agent could've taken in Silva--but of course, this is a Bond film, so it has to be Bond. But, Bond basically helped Silva all the way through. Which makes one wonder, maybe Bond was working with Silva...?

And, while we are making things up... if Silva has multiple plans to humiliate M, why did they not end up with Silva just breaking into her house after things had gone all wonky for MI6? Easy peasy. Even an agent without equipment could do it. You think a hacker like Silva couldn't?

It would have been FAR more easier for him to have bread crumbs that lead to someone in the South Pacific, or where ever they were, while he was sitting in Britain, watching the BBC report who MI6 is falling apart and that its Ms fault, then take a cab over one night, break in, and shoot her. Or blow her up. Or poison her. Or choke her. Whatever. While agents are looking for him on the other side of the planet... I mean, if we're speaking of made up multiple plans.

[stj]

I've been following the latter discussion, and the upshot of it all is:

All the plot stupidities don't count as plot stupidities if you mean for the movie to be daydream about being the old Bond. Not quite as misogynistic and jingo, a little more suffering hero as well as conquering hero, but the Good Old Bond is Back! Then it's only a question of whether fantasies about Bond, James Bond, get your rocks off or not. Piddling nonsense like logic, morality or mere consistency are symptomatic of people who just don't get it!

[Kai "the spy"]

stj wrote:

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I've been following the latter discussion, and the upshot of it all is:

All the plot stupidities don't count as plot stupidities if you mean for the movie to be daydream about being the old Bond. Not quite as misogynistic and jingo, a little more suffering hero as well as conquering hero, but the Good Old Bond is Back! Then it's only a question of whether fantasies about Bond, James Bond, get your rocks off or not. Piddling nonsense like logic, morality or mere consistency are symptomatic of people who just don't get it!

Sorry, but for Good Old Bond, SF was way too dark, introverted and simply too unspectacular. I'm fine with plot holes in a movie that's all about fun, as the pre-Craig Bonds were, but they obviously tried to be more than just fun, they tried to be dark, psychological and serious. And with that, I expect a bit more logic involved.

[Gaith]

^ Agreed. This was every bit as silly a movie as Die Another Day, but without the deliberate goofiness. And if the Box Office Mojo-reported budget of $200m is accurate... then I truly have no idea how it could possibly have cost that much.

There just better not be any more "villain plans to be temporarily captured" ploys in Into Darkness, is all, or I'm a start a warp core breach right there in the theater. Joker, Loki, Silva... enough is enough.

[lurok]

You just know that may well happen.

[Gaith]

Yes, I do. Don't I ever.

[Arpy]

Khan: Change of plans, Watson, they're on to us...

[JarodRussell]

I would love to see the next Bond to have one of those cheesy world domination plots again. With a mastermind villain, some extremely strong henchman, and a secret high tech underground lair with a countdown clock.

[Captaindemotion]

^And a white cat.

[JarodRussell]

And a monorail!

[Professor Zoom]

And a submarine car.