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Old October 23 2012, 02:31 AM   #16
Santa Klaus
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Re: Logan's Run: Is the Domed City actually "Sanctuary"

^^I assume you'll be writing the novelization?
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Old October 23 2012, 03:08 AM   #17
Ian Keldon
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Re: Logan's Run: Is the Domed City actually "Sanctuary"

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ What people?

Sanctuary does not, in fact, exist. Nobody in the city, including the computer, knows this, because they don't know about Box. Thus everybody thinks that the runners who have already fled the city have actually found Sanctuary.

The only people who DO find out about it are Logan and Jessica, because they meet Box (thus finding out what happened to the other runners) and then see what's outside the city. Then they come back and tell everybody.
Not what I mean. If Sanctuary is a creation of the Computer, then it MUST have told someone at some time, or the "runner network" would not have formed around trying to get to it, even adopting the ankh as their symbol.

It's clear that the Computer heard about Sanctuary FROM someone, probably a runner or an informant.
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Old October 23 2012, 04:41 AM   #18
Greg Cox
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Re: Logan's Run: Is the Domed City actually "Sanctuary"

Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ What people?

Sanctuary does not, in fact, exist. Nobody in the city, including the computer, knows this, because they don't know about Box. Thus everybody thinks that the runners who have already fled the city have actually found Sanctuary.

The only people who DO find out about it are Logan and Jessica, because they meet Box (thus finding out what happened to the other runners) and then see what's outside the city. Then they come back and tell everybody.
Not what I mean. If Sanctuary is a creation of the Computer, then it MUST have told someone at some time, or the "runner network" would not have formed around trying to get to it, even adopting the ankh as their symbol.

It's clear that the Computer heard about Sanctuary FROM someone, probably a runner or an informant.

Huh? The Computer didn't create Sanctuary; it's just investigating the same urban legend the Runners are perpetuating. Its mistake is that it can't understand that human beings are capable of believing in something that doesn't exist, and even inventing elaborate mythologies and symbols to support that belief . . . like the ankhs and such.

The Computer believes Sanctuary is real because the Runners believe Sanctuary is real, and the Runners believe Sanctuary is real because no Runner has ever returned to the City . . . so they must have found Sanctuary, right?

(Nope, they all ended up flash-frozen by a crazy robot. Sanctuary is a myth, like El Dorado or Shangri-La.)

The whole thing is a not-so-subtle commentary on religions, cults, witch hunts, and conspiracy theories.
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Old October 23 2012, 05:00 AM   #19
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Re: Logan's Run: Is the Domed City actually "Sanctuary"

I like the idea that Sanctuary is a convoluted version of a story that had its beginnings in the purpose of the dome itself. Why was the dome built in the first place, and why was the age of 30 chosen for Carousel? (I've never read the book, but I love the movie).
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Old October 23 2012, 05:06 AM   #20
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Re: Logan's Run: Is the Domed City actually "Sanctuary"

From the book, via wiki:
"The seeds of the Little War were planted in a restless summer during the mid-1960s, with sit-ins and student demonstrations as youth tested its strength. By the early 1970s over 75 percent of the people living on Earth were under 21 years of age. The population continued to climb—and with it the youth percentage.
In the 1980s the figure was 79.7 percent.
In the 1990s, 82.4 percent.
In the year 2000—critical mass."

In the book the cutoff is 21, not 30...
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Old October 23 2012, 06:04 AM   #21
Ian Keldon
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Re: Logan's Run: Is the Domed City actually "Sanctuary"

Then what motivated the "First Runner", Greg? Where was he/she running TO?

The idea of Sanctuary as a delusion on the part of the Runners and/or the Computer makes no sense.
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Old October 23 2012, 06:19 AM   #22
Cookies and Cake
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Re: Logan's Run: Is the Domed City actually "Sanctuary"

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ What people?

Sanctuary does not, in fact, exist. Nobody in the city, including the computer, knows this, because they don't know about Box. Thus everybody thinks that the runners who have already fled the city have actually found Sanctuary.

The only people who DO find out about it are Logan and Jessica, because they meet Box (thus finding out what happened to the other runners) and then see what's outside the city. Then they come back and tell everybody.
Not what I mean. If Sanctuary is a creation of the Computer, then it MUST have told someone at some time, or the "runner network" would not have formed around trying to get to it, even adopting the ankh as their symbol.

It's clear that the Computer heard about Sanctuary FROM someone, probably a runner or an informant.

Huh? The Computer didn't create Sanctuary; it's just investigating the same urban legend the Runners are perpetuating. Its mistake is that it can't understand that human beings are capable of believing in something that doesn't exist, and even inventing elaborate mythologies and symbols to support that belief . . . like the ankhs and such.

The Computer believes Sanctuary is real because the Runners believe Sanctuary is real, and the Runners believe Sanctuary is real because no Runner has ever returned to the City . . . so they must have found Sanctuary, right?

(Nope, they all ended up flash-frozen by a crazy robot. Sanctuary is a myth, like El Dorado or Shangri-La.)

The whole thing is a not-so-subtle commentary on religions, cults, witch hunts, and conspiracy theories.
One qualification to that.

The runners' ankh is the key which unlocks the door that leads out of the city and into the service area which is eventually blocked by Box's cave.

So, the ankh part was real.

IIRC (and it's been decades since I've seen the film), it's completely unexplained in the film, if not virtually a major plot hole, why the city computer either doesn't know that the ankh is an actual key that will open a service doorway to exit the city, or doesn't see a relevant connection there. Assuming that the computer actually knew, I suppose one could argue that the computer calculated that withholding that information from Logan was essential to getting the runners to believe he was really trying to run.
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Old October 23 2012, 08:55 AM   #23
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Re: Logan's Run: Is the Domed City actually "Sanctuary"

kythe wrote: View Post
I like the idea that Sanctuary is a convoluted version of a story that had its beginnings in the purpose of the dome itself.
Yeah it's a neat idea. The 1999 ITV series The Last Train did something similar-ish with it's reveal that
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Old October 23 2012, 04:17 PM   #24
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Re: Logan's Run: Is the Domed City actually "Sanctuary"

Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
Then what motivated the "First Runner", Greg? Where was he/she running TO?

The idea of Sanctuary as a delusion on the part of the Runners and/or the Computer makes no sense.
Why does it make no sense?

Some guy decides he doesn't want to give himself to Carousel, so he tells a friend he's going to escape.

Guy attempts to escape, and since he's gone, the friend assumes he escaped (Not knowing he was caught and frozen).

Friend tells some people, who tell some peope and a myth is born, which grows with every retelling (Ever try an experiment about how different a story is from when you tell it to someone, and it goes around the room, until it comes back to, wildly exaggerated?)

Computer, not being able to think but only follow it's logical programming, now knows there is this legend, logic says it must be true if so many people believe.

Computer is now perpetuating the myth, by freezing the folks trying to escape, because the populace believes those escapees have actually escaped.
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Old October 23 2012, 06:23 PM   #25
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Re: Logan's Run: Is the Domed City actually "Sanctuary"

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
You know, given the popularity of THE HUNGER GAMES, now would be the perfect time to remake LOGAN'S RUN--with an appropriately young teenage cast.
Agree.
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Old October 23 2012, 08:45 PM   #26
Greg Cox
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Re: Logan's Run: Is the Domed City actually "Sanctuary"

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
Then what motivated the "First Runner", Greg? Where was he/she running TO?

The idea of Sanctuary as a delusion on the part of the Runners and/or the Computer makes no sense.
Why does it make no sense?

Some guy decides he doesn't want to give himself to Carousel, so he tells a friend he's going to escape.

Guy attempts to escape, and since he's gone, the friend assumes he escaped (Not knowing he was caught and frozen).

Friend tells some people, who tell some peope and a myth is born, which grows with every retelling (Ever try an experiment about how different a story is from when you tell it to someone, and it goes around the room, until it comes back to, wildly exaggerated?)

Computer, not being able to think but only follow it's logical programming, now knows there is this legend, logic says it must be true if so many people believe.

Computer is now perpetuating the myth, by freezing the folks trying to escape, because the populace believes those escapees have actually escaped.
Exactly, although I think you mean Box, not Computer, is perpetuating the myth.

The world is full of myths and legends that grow over time, look at Atlantis or El Dorado or the Fountain of Youth. Heck, look at all the crazy theories about Roswell or Area 51 or alien abductions and the Loch Ness Monster. Never underestimate the human capacity for delusion--especially when the alternative is accepting that there is no escape from Carousel. The Runners believe in Sanctuary because they desperately want to believe it.

And that's certainly the twist in the movie, whether you think it makes sense or not.
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Old October 23 2012, 09:17 PM   #27
Sindatur
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Re: Logan's Run: Is the Domed City actually "Sanctuary"

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
Then what motivated the "First Runner", Greg? Where was he/she running TO?

The idea of Sanctuary as a delusion on the part of the Runners and/or the Computer makes no sense.
Why does it make no sense?

Some guy decides he doesn't want to give himself to Carousel, so he tells a friend he's going to escape.

Guy attempts to escape, and since he's gone, the friend assumes he escaped (Not knowing he was caught and frozen).

Friend tells some people, who tell some peope and a myth is born, which grows with every retelling (Ever try an experiment about how different a story is from when you tell it to someone, and it goes around the room, until it comes back to, wildly exaggerated?)

Computer, not being able to think but only follow it's logical programming, now knows there is this legend, logic says it must be true if so many people believe.

Computer is now perpetuating the myth, by freezing the folks trying to escape, because the populace believes those escapees have actually escaped.
Exactly, although I think you mean Box, not Computer, is perpetuating the myth.

The world is full of myths and legends that grow over time, look at Atlantis or El Dorado or the Fountain of Youth. Heck, look at all the crazy theories about Roswell or Area 51 or alien abductions and the Loch Ness Monster. Never underestimate the human capacity for delusion--especially when the alternative is accepting that there is no escape from Carousel. The Runners believe in Sanctuary because they desperately want to believe it.

And that's certainly the twist in the movie, whether you think it makes sense or not.
Oh, OK yea, Box I've never actually read the book, so, I was just relating what I had gathered from the posts

In the TV Series, it seems Sanctuary was the idea that such a place exists, and with such a strong belief and desire for it to exist, it would eventually be created
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Old October 23 2012, 09:39 PM   #28
Greg Cox
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Re: Logan's Run: Is the Domed City actually "Sanctuary"

[/QUOTE]Oh, OK yea, Box I've never actually read the book, so, I was just relating what I had gathered from the posts[/QUOTE]

Actually, I was talking about the movie. I don't remember the book that well.

In the movie, there's the Computer that runs the City and that's (mistakenly) convinced that Sanctuary is a real place.

And then there's Box, who is the crazy robot who keeps freezing anyone who escapes the City. Nobody ever really got to Sanctuary. Box froze them all.

The Computer doesn't know about Box. They're not connected.

As for the ankh, it's been a few years since I last saw the movie, but doesn't it just activate the way out of the City? It's possible that the ankh was simply the key to an emergency escape route installed by the City's original designers, and, over time, fervent Runners convinced themselves that it must lead to some fabled "Sanctuary."

But just because you find an escape hatch doesn't mean there has to be a safe haven further down the road. Or a Yellow Brick Road.

Remember, the whole climax of the movie is that the Computer has a nervous breakdown because it can't cope with the fact that there is NO Sanctuary. "Does not compute!"

If the Computer was right about there being a Sanctuary, it wouldn't blow up at the end!
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Old October 24 2012, 12:52 AM   #29
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Re: Logan's Run: Is the Domed City actually "Sanctuary"

The computer in the movie thinks there must be a Sanctuary because there's SO MANY unaccounted people. It even makes a point of showing Logan that number. It can't figure out where else they must have gone, so, it assumes they must have made it to Sanctuary. (when, in fact, they were all in Box's Birds-Eye frozen foods dept) I could buy the idea that the Domed City is actually the legendary "sanctuary".
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Old October 24 2012, 01:00 AM   #30
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Re: Logan's Run: Is the Domed City actually "Sanctuary"

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Leviathan wrote: View Post
No...however Logans Run + Soylent Green = AWESOME.
How about Logan's Run + Soylent Green + Hunger Games.

When you turn 21, you have to fight to death against other young people--and the losers get turned into food paste!

"Feed your Hunger Games with Soylent Green!"
Klaus wrote: View Post
^^I assume you'll be writing the novelization?
Hmmm...Klaus, it's been about 24 hours since you asked him, and he's posted replies to several other posts in this thread since then, but nothing on this one. Have we stumbled onto a Top Secret Project he's not allowed to talk about (Neither confirm, nor deny)?

Greg, when you can talk about it, be sure to keep us up to speed. I hope I haven't gotten you into hot water like Karl Urban got himself into
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