RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,747
Posts: 5,433,175
Members: 24,838
Currently online: 438
Newest member: Mei'konda

TrekToday headlines

Episode Four of The Red Shirt Diaries
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Star Trek: The Compendium Review
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Orci Drops Rangers Project
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Retro Review: Image in the Sand
By: Michelle on Sep 20

Star Trek: Shadows Of Tyranny Casting Call
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

USS Vengeance And More Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

Trek 3 To Being Shooting Next Year
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

Trek Messenger Bag
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

Star Trek Live In Concert In Australia
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

IDW Publishing December Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Sep 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 29 2012, 10:02 PM   #91
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: How would you have improved 'Paradise'?

But the Maquis where Federation citizens until they renounced their citizenship.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29 2012, 10:09 PM   #92
Pavonis
Commodore
 
Re: How would you have improved 'Paradise'?

^Didn't you two - Timo and MLB - just say the same thing?

If you're born in the Federation, you're a Federation citizen. That seems to be the case, or at least it's a widely believed item of fanon.

And yet, what of the Maquis? They were looking to start their own independent state, but the Federation didn't seem to view them as independent. The Feds didn't even seem to agree on what their policy on the Maquis was. In TNG, it seemed that Picard had to remind the settlers that they were giving up their citizenship in the Federation by remaining on territory passing into Cardassian hands. In DS9, the admirals that Sisko reported to seemed to think the Maquis were Federation citizens. Which was it?
Pavonis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 29 2012, 10:27 PM   #93
John Mason
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: Could be anywhere really...
Re: How would you have improved 'Paradise'?

more wine......
John Mason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 30 2012, 03:03 AM   #94
sonak
Vice Admiral
 
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: How would you have improved 'Paradise'?

Pavonis wrote: View Post
^Didn't you two - Timo and MLB - just say the same thing?

If you're born in the Federation, you're a Federation citizen. That seems to be the case, or at least it's a widely believed item of fanon.

And yet, what of the Maquis? They were looking to start their own independent state, but the Federation didn't seem to view them as independent. The Feds didn't even seem to agree on what their policy on the Maquis was. In TNG, it seemed that Picard had to remind the settlers that they were giving up their citizenship in the Federation by remaining on territory passing into Cardassian hands. In DS9, the admirals that Sisko reported to seemed to think the Maquis were Federation citizens. Which was it?

yes, that was a mess. The original understanding was that they were voluntarily giving up their citizenship, which made sense. Then, they're suddenly citizens again?!?

I think the writers just messed that up.
sonak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 30 2012, 03:13 AM   #95
Pavonis
Commodore
 
Re: How would you have improved 'Paradise'?

It's not unheard of for policies to change, even completely reverse. Was there a Presidential administration change, or a shift in the Federation Council? When did Jaresh-Inyo take office?
Pavonis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 30 2012, 04:32 PM   #96
Kira Nerys
Fleet Captain
 
Re: How would you have improved 'Paradise'?

I would earse it entirely from the episode list and replace it with one of the ideas that didn't make it to be filmed.
Kira Nerys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 30 2012, 10:31 PM   #97
sonak
Vice Admiral
 
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: How would you have improved 'Paradise'?

Pavonis wrote: View Post
It's not unheard of for policies to change, even completely reverse. Was there a Presidential administration change, or a shift in the Federation Council? When did Jaresh-Inyo take office?

it shouldn't have mattered. In this case, having the Maquis abandon their citizenship was pretty much the crux of the entire compromise. This was done so the Federation couldn't be dragged into a war by the DMZ colonists. Reversing that position would make no sense and would put the UFP in a WORSE position. (of course, we're talking about the kind of folks who signed a treaty voluntarily agreeing to put themselves at a technological disadvantage by not developing a cloak, so it's not out of the realm of possibility)
sonak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 30 2012, 11:14 PM   #98
Pavonis
Commodore
 
Re: How would you have improved 'Paradise'?

The Maquis might have ended up initiating a war with the Federation directly, if events had unfolded differently.

The Maquis wanted to be independent, but the Federation's policy seemed to be that the Maquis were citizens that needed to be controlled and imprisoned for their insolence. The Maquis might have been forced to fight for their independence, eventually. Unfortunately for them, their successes, combined with the Klingon invasion, drove the Cardassians into the Dominion's arms.

Anyway, the policy might have been a shift forced upon the Federation, perhaps because no other states recognized that the Maquis weren't Federation citizens. Especially the Cardassians - they might not be capable of conceiving of Humans/Vulcans/Betazoids as anything other than Federation citizens, and the UFP would end up being forced to deal with the Maquis to keep the peace with the Cardassians, regardless of the Maquis' own view on the matter.
Pavonis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31 2012, 11:54 AM   #99
Oso Blanco
Commodore
 
Oso Blanco's Avatar
 
Location: Berlin, Germany
Re: How would you have improved 'Paradise'?

This episode perfectly illustrates what fanatic tree-huggers and good-doers can be capable of. They dictate their philosophies to everyone else, no matter what the cost. We all know this type ... parents who feed their children vegan or people who are destroying medical facilities because they are against animal experiments or terrorists bombing innocent people for their noble cause ... and if they are given the opportunity and/or the power they will become brutal dictators, all under the excuse that it's necessary for the good of the people and some ill defined utopia.
__________________
Time is the fire in which we burn
Oso Blanco is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:22 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.