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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old October 29 2012, 10:02 PM   #91
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: How would you have improved 'Paradise'?

But the Maquis where Federation citizens until they renounced their citizenship.
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Old October 29 2012, 10:09 PM   #92
Pavonis
Commodore
 
Re: How would you have improved 'Paradise'?

^Didn't you two - Timo and MLB - just say the same thing?

If you're born in the Federation, you're a Federation citizen. That seems to be the case, or at least it's a widely believed item of fanon.

And yet, what of the Maquis? They were looking to start their own independent state, but the Federation didn't seem to view them as independent. The Feds didn't even seem to agree on what their policy on the Maquis was. In TNG, it seemed that Picard had to remind the settlers that they were giving up their citizenship in the Federation by remaining on territory passing into Cardassian hands. In DS9, the admirals that Sisko reported to seemed to think the Maquis were Federation citizens. Which was it?
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Old October 29 2012, 10:27 PM   #93
John Mason
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: Could be anywhere really...
Re: How would you have improved 'Paradise'?

more wine......
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Old October 30 2012, 03:03 AM   #94
sonak
Vice Admiral
 
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: How would you have improved 'Paradise'?

Pavonis wrote: View Post
^Didn't you two - Timo and MLB - just say the same thing?

If you're born in the Federation, you're a Federation citizen. That seems to be the case, or at least it's a widely believed item of fanon.

And yet, what of the Maquis? They were looking to start their own independent state, but the Federation didn't seem to view them as independent. The Feds didn't even seem to agree on what their policy on the Maquis was. In TNG, it seemed that Picard had to remind the settlers that they were giving up their citizenship in the Federation by remaining on territory passing into Cardassian hands. In DS9, the admirals that Sisko reported to seemed to think the Maquis were Federation citizens. Which was it?

yes, that was a mess. The original understanding was that they were voluntarily giving up their citizenship, which made sense. Then, they're suddenly citizens again?!?

I think the writers just messed that up.
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Old October 30 2012, 03:13 AM   #95
Pavonis
Commodore
 
Re: How would you have improved 'Paradise'?

It's not unheard of for policies to change, even completely reverse. Was there a Presidential administration change, or a shift in the Federation Council? When did Jaresh-Inyo take office?
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Old October 30 2012, 04:32 PM   #96
Kira Nerys
Fleet Captain
 
Re: How would you have improved 'Paradise'?

I would earse it entirely from the episode list and replace it with one of the ideas that didn't make it to be filmed.
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Old October 30 2012, 10:31 PM   #97
sonak
Vice Admiral
 
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: How would you have improved 'Paradise'?

Pavonis wrote: View Post
It's not unheard of for policies to change, even completely reverse. Was there a Presidential administration change, or a shift in the Federation Council? When did Jaresh-Inyo take office?

it shouldn't have mattered. In this case, having the Maquis abandon their citizenship was pretty much the crux of the entire compromise. This was done so the Federation couldn't be dragged into a war by the DMZ colonists. Reversing that position would make no sense and would put the UFP in a WORSE position. (of course, we're talking about the kind of folks who signed a treaty voluntarily agreeing to put themselves at a technological disadvantage by not developing a cloak, so it's not out of the realm of possibility)
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Old October 30 2012, 11:14 PM   #98
Pavonis
Commodore
 
Re: How would you have improved 'Paradise'?

The Maquis might have ended up initiating a war with the Federation directly, if events had unfolded differently.

The Maquis wanted to be independent, but the Federation's policy seemed to be that the Maquis were citizens that needed to be controlled and imprisoned for their insolence. The Maquis might have been forced to fight for their independence, eventually. Unfortunately for them, their successes, combined with the Klingon invasion, drove the Cardassians into the Dominion's arms.

Anyway, the policy might have been a shift forced upon the Federation, perhaps because no other states recognized that the Maquis weren't Federation citizens. Especially the Cardassians - they might not be capable of conceiving of Humans/Vulcans/Betazoids as anything other than Federation citizens, and the UFP would end up being forced to deal with the Maquis to keep the peace with the Cardassians, regardless of the Maquis' own view on the matter.
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Old October 31 2012, 11:54 AM   #99
Oso Blanco
Commodore
 
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Location: Berlin, Germany
Re: How would you have improved 'Paradise'?

This episode perfectly illustrates what fanatic tree-huggers and good-doers can be capable of. They dictate their philosophies to everyone else, no matter what the cost. We all know this type ... parents who feed their children vegan or people who are destroying medical facilities because they are against animal experiments or terrorists bombing innocent people for their noble cause ... and if they are given the opportunity and/or the power they will become brutal dictators, all under the excuse that it's necessary for the good of the people and some ill defined utopia.
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